Using PhotoLab 4 to process sunset photos

[OXiDant (Peter)]

Your welcome,

Tonecurve can help go get that LightRoom saturated feel you get when using there “dehaze function”.
You have to understand the difference between Dehaze and Clarity.
This has something to do with sharpening, Clarify, and nonsharpening blackdots adding, Dehaze.
In DxO you have intelligent Clearviewplus which is a combination in microdots on edges (sharpening) and colorsaturation by adding blackdots in colorplanes.(nonsharping)
As i suggest in this post collect some images to play with and push everything around till it’s overdone and then push more to see what’s breaking down.
This shows most different contrasty tools behaviour besides the local adjustment version which behave the the same but with more local controle which use is a different chapter.

Every time you encounter a unsolvable problem in a image : create a Virtual Copy on the stage it’s developing get stuck and start pulling and pushing several tools which would suspect to help around, create every time you find a certain solution leave it and create a new VC to try something else. After awile you start to see the different outcome’s on the different part’s of the image due the use of different tools and combination of tools.
VC’s don’t be real Harddisk space taking image’s so they don’t turn up in other application’s to confuse you.

And enjoy searching for clues.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

Well, anything I buy, with rare exceptions, will lag behind tomorrow

You should try moving to LF from digital, like we did but, when scanning a 5" x 4" negative gave us a 115Mpx image, when our digital cameras at that time were only 6Mpx, seemed very futuristic.

Now, of course, I could always move up to the Hasselblad H6D-100c with 100Mpx but, at a price of $33,000 for the body, I would not be making enough money out of it to warrant the price difference between that and my Ebony, which only cost me £1,500 at the time.

Or maybe we should all jump on the ship of Samsungs latest 200Mpx smartphone camera chip? One minor problem (well several actually) - a fixed focal length of “wide” and no external knobs to twiddle.

@mikemyers

but in my case I already have the D750, and for the kinds of photos I’ve been taking lately, it’s technically the “best” camera I now own

Agreed 100%

@mikemyers

Composition and timing and “the image” are most important, but I can’t picture Ansel Adams using a lens for which he had a better replacement

The beauty of Nikon digital bodies is that you can choose the quality of glass without having to replace the whole camera, just as you can with an LF camera.

The biggest problem with modern digital cameras is the most “average” people prefer to use zoom lenses, which straightaway reduce the quality of any image over a prime lens. The biggest problems with prime lenses are needing a big sack to carry them all in and the possibility of dust on the sensor every time you change lens. Compromise, compromise, always compromise - unless, of course, you buy one body for each lens

@mikemyers

… including my “homework” for Joanna

And about time too And don’t bother with the apple for the teacher, I already have a couple of those

[OXiDant (Peter)]

@Joanna

The biggest problem with modern digital cameras is the most “average” people prefer to use zoom lenses, which straightaway reduce the quality of any image over a prime lens.

I admit it I am an average photographer and use zoom lenses for almost everything…
it’s just a lot easier and a lot less swapping lenses.
It helps to keep up with the group because changing lenses on foot wile walking often means waiting for trouble. falling down, lenses falling down, lampposts crossing spontaneously… you name it it could be happening to you.

@Joanna

The biggest problems with prime lenses are needing a big sack to carry them all in and the possibility of dust on the sensor every time you change lens.

i have one backpack which is a compromise in storing photostuf and personal stuf. when it’s full it’s full.
So if i buy a new lens something else needs to go. on a shelf or on secondhand market.
i am eyeballing a pl 35-100mm f2.8ii but this pushes my 14-140mm f3.5-5.6 out. (which is a great little walkabout lens in daytime.)
Every time a 35-100mmf2.8 goes by on secondhand market i restrain myself… "don’t need it, You don’t need it! No!!! use what you have more, don’t wast your money you have the focal length it adds nothing to the set…,vs it’s only money! it’s a few dinners in a restaurant! which is gone after two day’s down the drain… So get it! you life one’s! the wife doesn’t have to know! she buy’s shoes and clothing! so you can…
and then it’s often gone bought by an other enthousiast … saved by the bell so to speak.

The only prime i have is a 15mm f1.7 marvellous color and contrast rendering sharp as a blade.

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

The biggest problem with modern digital cameras is the most “average” people prefer to use zoom lenses, which straightaway reduce the quality of any image over a prime lens. The biggest problems with prime lenses are needing a big sack to carry them all in and the possibility of dust on the sensor every time you change lens.

My Nikon lens collection includes lots of old high-quality glass manual-focus lenses for the original F and F2 cameras, and as of when I bought my F4 several (old) auto-focus lenses, many of which are AI. My newer (not “new”) lenses were for my digital DSLR’s, and as of today all my lenses (with rare exceptions) will work on my Nikon Df, and most of the more important lenses will work on the D750.

I spend a lot of time (or used to) in India, which is horribly dusty, and a zoom lens was a better solution than constant sensor cleaning.

Fast forward to today - I’ve got all these lenses, and more. I can use my older glass lenses, or my newer lenses (several are zoom). I suppose if I knew what to buy for the highest quality, I could even buy new lenses.

Rather than sort this out right now, can I ask you which lenses you prefer the most for high quality images, a wider angle, a normal, and a mild telephoto? My 80-200 zoom is big, bulky, heavy, and as sharp or more so than any other lens I own. I don’t know about Nikon’s “consumer” 50mm lenses. I have the standard “AF-S Nikkor 50mm 1:1.8 G” lens, along with my “AF Nikkor 24mm 1:2.8” lenses, which I have used the most. Both are light, and reasonably inexpensive. For prime lenses, what do you suggest?

@Joanna

And about time too And don’t bother with the apple for the teacher, I already have a couple of those

The SD card is still in my M10 - I spent yesterday at home catching up and ordering a Wolff oven, and never even left my home. Today I’m “back in business” so to speak, but first thing on my agenda is a nice breakfast, as soon as I finish catching up on my computer. As for an “apple for the teacher”, I have some I plan to donate to Aravind Eye Hospital in India. Maybe I should send one to you?

[Guenterm (Win11, MAC OS, DPL 5, FP, VP, Nik4, Olympus)]

Hi Peter,
and like a friend of mine said …“imagine you die now! …what’s with all the money you can’t take with you into the grave”
Black humour but…

[OXiDant (Peter)]

Yep they can use the last penny to screw the covin-lid tied and burn it.
First i need to go out more to visit places take the cam and wonder around.
Too buzy burning time with nothing special.
administration, pc things, housekeeping errands, kids things, wife’s things, work, sport, sleep, couch binche watching series, say covid’s indoctrination for home being pattern’s.
Buying stuff doesn’t change that.(much)
Let say i am one legg over the fence… keep you posted

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

I suppose if I knew what to buy for the highest quality, I could even buy new lenses

I have always found Ken Rockwell to be a good source of advice and one zoom lens that I have, that he rates highly, is the Nikon 28-300mm f/3.5-5.6 VR, which he reckons, and I agree, can replace a whole bag full of lenses for everyday use.

Apart from that, and the 80-400 I mentioned in the B&W thread, our other lenses are:

• Nikon 20mm f/1.8 AF-S
• Nikon 35mm f/1.8 G FX AF-S
• Nikon 50mm f/1.8 AF-D
• Nikon 85mm f/1.4 AF-D (this is a sheer joy to use for portrait work)
• Nikon 105mm f/2.8 AF Micro (although I do have a hankering after the newer version with VR, because it also has AF-S and so will work with the D850 focus stacking)

I used to have the 28-200 zoom but it suffers from a lot of chromatic aberration and DxO do not do an optical module for it and it badly it needs for distortion and vignetting correction.

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

because it also has AF-S and so will work with the D850 focus stacking

So focus stacking only works with these new lenses with an “S” as you noted?
If I buy anything “new”, I should future-proof my lens be looking for this?
I had no idea…

[George]

AF-S-lens. Silence wave motor. The lens has n internal motor to focus. Older lenses have an focus system driven mechanical by the camera: AF lenses.

George

[mikemyers]

@George

The lens has an internal motor to focus.

Gotcha! A few of my lenses have this, will need to check.
Not planning to buy anything new, yet.

[George]

And now a camera with that function.

George

[mikemyers]

Right before I got to take my (not very impressive) homework photo of the night sky, I set up my camera to capture the launch of the Lucy Rocket two nights ago from Cape Kennedy. I put my 50mm Voigtlander on the M10, resting on my travel tripod, took a few exposures to see if I was in “the ballpark” (meaning I could tell the difference between sky and land after 20 seconds or so. I saw the blast of orange light at the bottom, opened the shutter, and held everything steady for around 20 seconds until I was sure the rocket was out of my field of view.

I got to process it in PL4 earlier this morning. In the dark black background of PL4 I got to where I could barely see colors in the trees and bushes in front of me. While I was standing there, I could barely see the outlines of the trees.

I’ll post my end result below, and ask if there is anything I could do better next time.

I think I see slight wavering of the path of the rocket, which I suspect is movement in my camera/tripod/hand. My stars are lines, not “dots”, but that’s because I forgot my “hold the earth still tool”. I love having a bit of color in the trees and vegetation, and the dashed line at the lower right must have come from an airplane.

I will also post my homework assignment from Joanna below, but I think it deserves a grade of “D” if that. Also with the 50mm lens, but I was just guessing at a lot of things. Maybe it gets a C- but no more. No processing - not sure where to start, other than turning off everything from PL4 and adding my watermark before mailing to my brother. Some stars appear “blue” - probably my fault somehow. This was the brightest part of the sky, and at the time, I mostly wanted to get back into bed!

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[OXiDant (Peter)]

@mikemyers

and held everything steady for around 20 seconds until I was sure the rocket was out of my field of view.

Maybe you can ask them to go off again and kept the rocket inside the frame?
Then you would be seeing what caused the flamy line.
al that said, wel done handheld… holding your breath for 20 sec… don’t pay attention on the heartbeat ramping up and don’t forget to watch the cameraviewer and not the rocket.

[mikemyers]

@OXiDant

wel done handheld… holding your breath for 20 sec… don’t pay attention on the heartbeat ramping up and don’t forget to watch the cameraviewer and not the rocket

Like I wrote, it was on my tripod, but I was trying to stabilize everything with my body, watching ONLY the rocket and trying my hardest NOT to think about the camera. My tripod has a “hook” at the very bottom. I think if I attach a brick to it, that will keep things steadier. I can take a photo of it. We had a discussion here about tripods a while back, and I didn’t like the light-weight choices. I figured I only had one shot at this (for the upcoming three months I’ll be home, no rockets), and this is the best I’ve ever done, thanks to all of you and PhotoLab !

[platypus (Canon & Mac (Intel and M1))]

@Guenterm

what’s with all the money you can’t take with you

true, and the same goes for gear

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

I hope you will not be too upset with my “assessment” of your images

According to the EXiF, the first one you exposed for 88 seconds, but you said something about 20 seconds? The length of star trails would confirm it as being about that length of time. If you were even touching the camera for that long, it would explain why things are somewhat blurred. in fact, everything is blurred, not from the movement of the stars but from the movement of the camera. The rule is: a sturdy tripod, a remote release and use of the Bulb setting, where you have to hold it all the time; or use of the Time setting by just lightly touching the shutter once to open it and, then, again to close it. My Nikon has exposure times up to 30 secs and, after that, I use the Time setting and my iPhone as a countdown timer.

The dotted trail is indeed an aircraft, but you can see from the wiggliness of the trail that you were more than likely touching the camera.

At 88 seconds, you obviously exceeded the 10 seconds maximum necessary to avoid dashes instead of dots for stars.

Here is my quick version…

The second image could have done with being shot at only 1000 ISO instead of 1600. If you were judging the exposure from the back of the camera, that will be why it is over-exposed on a couple of the brighter stars. You have to remember that, with RAW files, there is a lot more detail in the lower end than you could possibly see in the JPEG on the back screen.

Compare this 100% screenshot of one of my images not yet altered in PL, taken at 1000 ISO, 10 seconds @ f/1.8…

With the same type of screenshot of yours, taken at 1600 ISO, 16 secs @ f/?…

… which clearly shows vibration, not just star movement; and just a tad of over-exposure on the brightest stars.

@mikemyers

Like I wrote, it was on my tripod, but I was trying to stabilize everything with my body, watching ONLY the rocket and trying my hardest NOT to think about the camera

This is a problem. If your tripod needs stabilisation, it is not sturdy enough and, as I said before, you should either be using a remote release in the Bulb position or, use a camera like the D750 that has a Time position, which allows you to touch once to open and again to close the shutter.

Now, this did surprise me that the Leica doesn’t have a Time mode - my guess is that it really wasn’t designed for a wider variety of subjects.

Nonetheless, bravo for a first attempt

[OXiDant (Peter)]

@mikemyers

Like I wrote, it was on my tripod, but I was trying to stabilize everything with my body, watching ONLY the rocket and trying my hardest NOT to think about the camera.

Ah ohw. now i read it correctly. my mistake.
Holding a tripod “steady” with your hands does the opposite i think.
a bag of sand would be better. any bag, a plastic bag for instance. and timer shutter release in 5 sec.
(but then you would mis the take off maybe so even then well done.)

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

but you said something about 20 seconds?

I was just guessing in the 20 seconds, obviously incorrectly. Next time I visit I will bring my “solid” tripod with me, and a good cable release. My fault, and the tripod is what it is. I should give it away. 88 seconds? Wow! Next time I’ll likely visit with the D750. And with a good cable release. Yes, I was touching the camera for the entire 88 seconds, as it doesn’t have a “T” setting.

The second version was all guesswork. I need to jot all this down for use next time, whenever that is.

I think the Leica lacks the “T” setting on purpose - if I have the shutter open for 47 seconds, for example, the Leica then takes a 47 exposure of “nothing”, and does some math to minimize sensor errors from showing up.

Thanks - next time I hope to do better.

---

I took the D750 out with me this evening to try a sunset photo, but the sky wasn’t cooperating. I did get a photo to review, but it’s not worth posting here. It was good though to re-familiarize myself with the 750!

[mikemyers]

I changed my mind about my sunset photo from tonight. Once I opened it, I was flat out amazed at how sharp it is, and while Mother Nature didn’t provide the awesome colors I was hoping for, I worked on it anyway. Now that it’s done, I like it.

On the positive side, I finally got “smart lighting” to do what I wanted. The sky color was quickly fading, but this is the first good image from tonight - as I took more, the sky got duller. I am flat-out amazed - even the airplane at the top left is looking better than it has any right to look.

I took it with my 50mm f/1.8 lens, which I see no need to replace.

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_MJM9120 | 2021-10-18.nef.dop (13.4 KB)

[Guenterm (Win11, MAC OS, DPL 5, FP, VP, Nik4, Olympus)]

Hi Mike,
here is something to read if you have a lot of time ABOUT (markins.com)
The short story is to invest in a sturdy tripod. It has not to be a Gitzo, although in my experience it’s an investment that lasts for several camera cycles.
I have sold my Gitzo GT3530S 6x Carbon Systematics Serie 3 four years ago, because it was tooo big for my Olympus OMD. But with my Nikon, a big tele and in windy conditions there was no problem. And it was so well build, that I got a good price selling it at a DSLR forum.
Now I own a Sirui, which fits better for my mirrorless, works well but the build quality is not the same level as Gitzo.
My wife owns a Gitzo 1057 which is very small and lightweight and for her it was a good desicison to buy 10 years ago.
There are other competitors on the market like Berlebach, Manfrotto and so on, but be carefully because also the big names are selling cheap series for amteurs.
I remember a post from you where you are talking about your 50 $ tripod, and I think it would be a good idea to replace with a good tripod and a good head.
I think you will get a lot of recommendations in this forum to force your decision.
And lastly…to stabilize a tripod with your hands and body is nonsens

best regards

Guenter