@John-M Who knows, DxO possibly (?) but “getting blood out of a stone” is easier than getting anything out of them!
Checked HSL in DPL 7.0.1.31 on Mac and found that clicking the arrow once or twice resets HSL S&V to 0/0, in spite of them being set to -10/+10 by the preset I applied. And I get the same reset, even if the active dot (colour) is orange. It does not matter if I’ve applied the HSL with a preset manually or as default for new images. I always get a full HSL reset, single or double click alike.
To me, this looks like the ccw turning arrow acts as a general reset of the (global) HSL tool. It’s definitely not an “undo” button, which might be a more logical option in this tool.
Checked an older EA build too…and HSL behaves exactly like build 31.
Overall, the reset arrow does as expected, but I found no version of DPL that acted like described by @John-M in his opening post:
That is; with PLv7
- Clicking on the global HSL tool’s Reset button - resulted only in settings for the hue-specific channels being reset to their defaults
@platypus we are discussing the double click behaviour of the reset icon, we agree that the single click clears everything.
So we appear to have , on Win (10 in my case)
Double-clicking on any of the coloured dots resets the adjustments for just that dot
Double-clicking on the white dot resets just the local “global” (“Master”) adjustments
Single-clicking on the arrow resets everything, “Master” and Colour channels
Double-clicking on the arrow resets all the Colour channels and resets the “Master” channel to the “default” values, i.e. the values which were was assigned to it by the ‘Preference’ preset (according to the results of my tests), if that original value was Sat = 0 and Vib = 0 then the “Master” channel will also be de-selected!!??
So a weird variant on the tests I did before
- Change the Preferences back to my original test value
- Discover a new RAW and check HSL
- Double click on Master icon
- Double click on the reset icon
Now you see it, now you don’t , now you see it again because I have reset the Master channel back to its assigned (via Preferences and the discovery process) value. This value is in the DOP and survives restarts, i.e. it never seems to change!!
PS:- It was lucky that I had used a “strange” preset for RAW images in the ‘Preferences’ or I would never have realised what was actually happening!?
if there is a bug or not – this is not the biggest problem with PL7 to be solved.
Improvements to the Local Adjustments UI are way more important.
- e.g. this
PLv7 Request/Suggestion: Make it easier to identify changes applied to Local Adjustment sliders
and many more
2 Likes
@Wolfgang I never said it was (the biggest issue), I simply did some investigations to understand HSL, which until Sunday I had never used in “anger”, and found what I found.
I just want what I then “found” to be as accurately documented as possible.
To be honest writing it here has little or no impact on what DxO consider to be a problem.
With respect to the Local Adjustments I have never used those either, except Linear Gradient’ but the new UI may change that, particularly with HSL included in LA and the improved accessibility to the features on offer, with our without the perceived faults.
However, while I understand and sympathise with the issues with the UI, I cannot change them in the slightest and consider that there are other problems with PhotoLab in general that need addressing and have needed addressing for a l o n g , l o n g, time plus new ones added by some so called “designer” in DxO, namely indexing.
Indexing may be a feature that is only wanted by me but what was done to it in PL7 is an abomination, that “designer” at it again!
The old UI for LA could have been left intact and made a user choice as to which they used and a “local” choice not a ‘Preferences’ choice, i.e. use whichever suits the situation at any time and toggle between the two if necessary.
The weird way the features work, that you had to explain to me, should not be the case! The options should also have the on/off toggle of the normal menus at the very least. Whoever “designed” that should be … words fail me (they don’t but while I want to reduce my involvement with the forum I do’t want it curtailed completely)
Indexing was not “broken”, as far as we ever knew, do don’t “fix” it and castrate it at the same time!
I agee the bug was found by chance but the local adjustments problem effect most users
1 Like
@John7 Yes but does that somehow mean I should not write up what I found, my post is not detracting nor distracting from the other discussions so why the sudden attention @John7 and @Wolfgang ?
I have not expressed an opinion on the LA posts nor does fixing or otherwise this bug"/feature/anomaly whatever with the global HSL it is in any way detract from the LA issues.
If we are going to start suggesting that any posts that somehow distracts DxO (or the users) from addressing an urgent issue should be suppressed or curtailed then where does that end up!
My posts here are relating to Global HSL and documenting something which I don’t believe has been documented, a minor issue certainly but I was tidying up a loose end no less and no more.
I am not responsible for what DxO did to LA, I have not defended what they did except to state that I find LA now more usable for me personally. Personally I would not have “dumped” the old UI, I would have sought to integrate them both.
If you remember back to the ‘Classic Legacy’ versus ‘Wide Gamut’ situation it was clear that DxO were simply going to switch the product to ‘Wide Gamut’, but a number of users interceded and an option was provided.
Although I was a Beta Tester my testing this time was limited because I do not consider myself an expert on HSL, Local adjustments and issues relating to colour processing etc…
I feel that the issues being raised about LA should have been raised in Beta Testing, which they may well have been, but getting DxO to change direction is close to impossible (not completely impossible but close).
So gentlemen please stop “shooting the messenger” who isn’t even carrying a message about LA!
@John7 and the accidental part relates to the fact that I double clicked on the reset when I meant to do a single click plus I had a rather odd ‘Preference’ set for RAW processing that actually set the Global Sat and Vib to values other than 0.
So when they changed back it was obvious, had they been 0 then it would have looked as if the double click had reset them (to 0) rather than reset them to the default!!
1 Like
Let’s not “run off on a tangent”, fellas … I agree that the most important issues to bring to attention of DxO are deficiencies in PL’s new Local Adjustments implementation, and suggestions for its improvement.
While Bryan’s interesting findings on the workings of the HSL Reset-option are certainly well worth understanding too.
John M
2 Likes
I think you should, since we are at the last beta stage (open beta stage ?) before the black friday stable release (ouh, ouh ,ouh …).
2 Likes
@John-M and @JoPoV Thank you for your support and I am not really “cross” with @Wolfgang and @John7.
I can add little to the debate about LA, particularly because I am only starting to get to grips with LA in general and the new UI in particular.
But I would have automatically introduced
to allow activation and de-activation of LA editing components in the same way as we can with Global editing components!
It is possible that DxO thought about that but there were implementation issues but we will never know because there is ZERO feedback from DxO about anything & everything.
2 Likes
The same issue doesn’t exists with LA HSL!
- created a new preset including a brush with HSL Sat and Vib settings.
- Selected that new preset in ‘Preferences’
- Discovered a new RAW and the LA edit and HSL were intact.
- Changed the values of LA HSL
- Double clicked on the reset and all settings for LA Master were set to 0
I expected this but always worth a quick test
PS:- it is possible no code exists to check for the double click on LA HSL reset!?
I think I’m seeing something similar with PL v7.1 (trial) but I’m so confused I could be wrong…
If I have HSL off and click on the reset arrow, HSL is turned on AND both hue and sat are set to +5. Huh?? Where did those values come from? That’s not what I expected, I expected either nothing to happen, after all HSL was off, or HSL to be turned on and hue and sat to be set to zero.
@stuck I believe that the “Reset” is resetting to the original value allocated to the image, e.g. when it was first discovered by DxPL. It is derived from here
With an old DOP that could be a value from who knows when!?
PS:- someone applied some logic to come up with that but I am not sure I would have done it that way, actually I wouldn’t it is just weird and actually very confusing. If you have no ‘Saturation’/‘Vibrancy’ setting in the designated presets then you will have nothing when you reset but some of the DxO defaults have values set for those fields!
@stuck so I set the ‘Preferences’ to one of my more extreme ‘Partial’ presets
and discovered some new images I get
and then use another preset to turn all HSL channels to 0
Now I click on the ‘Reset’ and get
So that is what the ‘Reset’ does!!
PS:- DxPL is identifying the current defaults these days
These values
‘belong’ to the new Preset “1-DxO Style - Natural”,
(= turns up after installation)
which is why I changed it for ‘new’ files to
Thanks, yes, I found that - eventually.
I’ve only been poking at v7 (trial) for a few days but my feelings so far are that changes like moving HSL completely, i.e. removing the global sat. and vibrancy controls, into Local Adjustments is irritating for experienced users and likely to be confusing to new users.
It follows from those feelings that where in the past I’ve recommended PL as a ‘simple’ and ‘easily accessible’ photo editor to people who’ve been intimidated by the power and complexity of Photoshop or Affinity Photo, I’m unlikely to do that in the future. PL just has too many proprietary quirks now.
1 Like
@stuck the Global sat and vibrancy controls have indeed been removed (and shouldn’t have been) and replaced by the global HSL. The LA HSL is a new feature that just wasn’t there before, i.e. HSL has been “duplicated” to give global and LA HSL capabilities but the global ‘Saturation’ and ‘Vibrancy’ have been subsumed into the ‘global’ HSL for some reason best known to DxO!?
While PhotoLab is certainly becoming more complex (or complicated) I can still manage to get what I want from the product where Affinity leaves me “cold”.
Plus I can take 451 images of Autumn colour as I did on Monday afternoon, in very mixed and changing light, and apply old presets to all and then refine those edits as I see fit, and stop and restart editing at any time and export any or all of the images and … easily change them all when my wife suggests that I have “overcooked” them slightly!
I don’t see that being possible in Affinity or Photoshop which is why even though DxPL continues to disappoint me in many ways it still offers me what I want, the ability to bulk edit, to stop and restart editing as and when (if) I want to and pick up where I left off.
… which I hope will be ironed out by the time!
Hoping for a ‘major bug fixes’ update rather than usual (unidentified) minor bug fixes.
It’s all more or less in place but usability is frustrating.
1 Like