I have seen a number of posts about this, including one saying it is a bug fix that would be included - but that was back in January 2020. ICC Profile in sRGB jpeg
My photo club competition entry system expects an ICC profile to be attached. I cannot find a way of exporting an sRGB jpeg with such a profile attached. An alternative suggestion I have seen is to export with a custom profile specifying sRGB, but that seems to have no effect for me.
Is this still an outstanding bug or am I just missing something simple?
The situation has not changed. There is no progress in solving the problem. I don’t think the developers are interested in first-class color management and have no real plans to change the situation.
I am tired of constantly returning to this unresolved issue, and lately I have rarely taken part in the subject. At the same time, there are desires for functions that suggest perfectly working color management. Understandably, for me, color management in a PhotoLab is compromised.
The only way to attach a color profile is through the custom export option. I work this way, but I verify the export result with other software. Like I said, I don’t trust color management in a PhotoLab.
If there’s a way to solve the sRGB profile attached by choosing a custom profile, that doesn’t seem like the toughest workaround.
The reason that colour profiles are left out for sRGB images is that the web default for images is sRGB. Colour profiles take up space so there was a big movement to remove the sRGB profile for sRGB images. That was when images were posted at 75 kb or 220 kb. now that images are posted at 1 or 2 MB, omitting the colour profile does seem pointless.
But at one point there was a good historical reason to omit these profiles.
Thanks for the replies. I have tried exporting with a custom profile, specifying profile “sRGB Color Space Profile.icm” which appears to be the only sRGB profile available to me, but it seems to have no impact. The exported image is sized exactly the same, and the club competition entry system still tells me there is no profile attached.
When I export from NX studio specifying that it should attach an ICC profile, and I use exiftool to check the resulting image, the output is as follows:
[MakerNotes] ColorSpace: sRGB
[EXIF] ColorSpace: Uncalibrated
[ICC_Profile] ProfileCMMType: Nikon Corporation
[ICC_Profile] ProfileVersion: 2.2.0
[ICC_Profile] ProfileClass: Display Device Profile
[ICC_Profile] ColorSpaceData: RGB
[ICC_Profile] ProfileConnectionSpace: XYZ
[ICC_Profile] ProfileDateTime: 2009:02:20 17:07:10
[ICC_Profile] ProfileFileSignature: acsp
[ICC_Profile] PrimaryPlatform: Apple Computer Inc.
[ICC_Profile] CMMFlags: Not Embedded, Independent
[ICC_Profile] DeviceManufacturer: none
[ICC_Profile] DeviceAttributes: Reflective, Glossy, Positive, Color
[ICC_Profile] RenderingIntent: Perceptual
[ICC_Profile] ConnectionSpaceIlluminant: 0.9642 1 0.82491
[ICC_Profile] ProfileID: 0
[ICC_Profile] ProfileDescription: Nikon sRGB 220.127.116.1102
[ICC_Profile] RedMatrixColumn: 0.43607 0.2225 0.01392
[ICC_Profile] GreenMatrixColumn: 0.38507 0.71687 0.09706
[ICC_Profile] BlueMatrixColumn: 0.14305 0.06061 0.71399
[ICC_Profile] MediaWhitePoint: 0.9505 1 1.0891
[ICC_Profile] ProfileCopyright: Nikon Inc. & Nikon Corporation 2009
[ICC_Profile] RedTRC: (Binary data 8204 bytes, use -b option to extract)
[ICC_Profile] GreenTRC: (Binary data 8204 bytes, use -b option to extract)
[ICC_Profile] BlueTRC: (Binary data 8204 bytes, use -b option to extract)
When I export from PL4 specifying a custom profile as indicated above exiftool shows
[MakerNotes] ColorSpace: sRGB
[EXIF] ColorSpace: sRGB
So PL4 correctly identifies the colour space. But even when asked to export the profile, it doesn’t include it. Maybe it is the fact it is an icm which is the problem, but then why would it allow me to select it?
So I used exiftool to export the icc file from the image generated by NX Studio. I then specified that icc file as the custom profile. It is then correctly ‘attached’ (embedded?) in the jpeg generated by PL4.
So it seems specifying “sRGB Color Space Profile.icm” as the custom profile is the problem.
What I do not know is what impact specifying the ‘wrong’ icc file has. Is there any danger that it is actually used and generates an incorrect colour mapped image? Or would all ‘consumers’ of the jpeg just treat it as an sRGB and display it in the same way?
I also embed the Nikon sRGB profile through the custom option and it works.
But why do I verify the image in other software? Why do I say that color management in a PhotoLab is unsatisfactory? The first problem is that you cannot set a working color space. Instead, the PhotoLab uses some internal color space, which according to various posts here in the forum is very close to AdobeRGB. This fact leads to the consequence that on the screen at the time of editing you can see colors that will not be present in the exported sRGB file. Because sRGB is a narrower color space, some (or all) colors will change. The second problem is that you have no control over the conversion from AdobeRGB to sRGB. You cannot set rendering intent or black point compensation. And these are parameters that directly affect the convert result.
This seems to me a misunderstanding. Using sRGB, I’ve never once had exported colors be different from what I was seeing during the editing process. (I also have a calibrated monitor, which is important.) An internal color space is just that, internal - where calculations are done. DxO uses Adobe RGB because it’s the largest color space that it supports. You don’t see it unless you’re using it. You can configure which color space you do your work in and export to the same space or a different one. There are open requests for DxO to use a much larger color space (typically ProPhoto) so that we’re not limited to just sRGB and Adobe RGB.
The second problem arises from editing in Adobe RGB and exporting to sRGB. Are you also exporting to Adobe RGB for some purpose that benefits from its greater color range?
I see a difference in the colors of the exported sRGB files for me. And I’m not an amateur. I work with EIZO Coloredge CG2420 and the whole work process is calibrated with X-rite i1 Photo Pro 2.
I do not want to limit the monitor itself to sRGB, because PhotoLab is not the only software I use in my work.
99% of my work is in sRGB. That’s why I do not want to work at AdobeRGB. This only complicates matters.
I know there are requests for a wider working color space and that shocks me. I would just ask on what device will the work be visualized? What device will the customer see it on? I’m sorry for my candor, but 99% of Photolab users have limited knowledge of color management.
For your calibrated screen it’s best to set PL this way
wether your screen is set for sRGB
PL will show the colours correctly.
As long softproof is missing, for sRGB output you are better off to edit in sRGB colour space.
Unfortunately for now, we only have RI perceptual.
→ Pruning lights and shadows - #20 by Wolfgang → also follow the provided link …
I agree with your opinion. My setting in PhotoLab is the same. The monitor is set to AdobeRGB because the world does not revolve around PhotoLab.
I wish that one day Photolab would have color management on a professional level, but I don’t believe that will happen.
That looks like an edge case to me, deliberately seeking a point of failure. I shoot in sRGB and output in sRGB and have my monitors calibrated to sRGB. Hard experience with Aperture and Lightroom over the years has shown me that mixing colour spaces creates trouble just when you aren’t expecting it.
If you wish to use other spaces, I’d suggest you set up shooting AdobeRGB, processing in AdobeRGB, monitors set to AdobeRGB and even output to AdobeRGB (most of the time, web of course has to be output to sRGB). Some labs only accept sRGB but I imagine if you are on an all AdobeRGB or ProPhoto with properly calibrated monitors that show close to 100% of those colour spaces, you would be using print houses which prefer AdobeRGB files.
I do not agree with your opinion.
I would like to be able to choose the working color space. My preferred option is to work in the color space of the input file.
Many software allow this. Photolab does not allow it.
There is little good reason for DxO to give users control of the Photolab’s internal colour spaces. It’s a great opportunity to tie up their core team bug-hunting colour issues for two to three years. About 1% of Photolab users might benefit from that change. I say might as switching between colour spaces generally causes more trouble than it creates benefit.
Looks like you will have to learn about the pain of mixing colour spaces the hard way. I hope someday somewhere someone will see a positive visual difference out of the complexity of your colour workflow.
Steve’s request to have Photolab optionally include an explicit sRGB profile in exports makes sense and is not much extra work for DxO at all.
I support Koko’s request that DxO PL improve its Export to Disk color management options interface. The current options are a hodge-podge. At the very least, make it clear when a profile will be embedded and when it will not be embedded (simply flagged). And while it may be old school, best practices color management advice has always been to embed the profile. One can, as has been mentioned, embed Nikon or other sRGB profiles, such as Elle Stone’s non-proprietary “well-behaved” profiles (V2 and V4) available on GitHub. However, the current work-around is not obvious to those new to DxO PL, hence this topic resurfacing every few months.
This is just the latest of several threads regarding embedding ICC profiles going back several years now. Koko has been consistent in asking that this particular issue be resolved. I do agree that discussions about the internal working color space should be (and are) in separate threads. Those discussions are not what I was addressing.