PureRaw 5 Surprise

DxO PureRAW
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Yikes. I downloaded and installed PureRaw5 this morning and ran some Leica D-Lux 8 DNG files. These were the same files that I ran through PureRaw 4 yesterday. They are mostly evening and night shots in a location I use for trials.

I was not impressed with the noise reduction at default settings, and I see that I’ll need to dive deeper into some select shots to compare PureRaw 4 and 5.

Most of my shooting is with Fujifilm X-Trans and DXO is a long way from getting that to work – I saw some disturbing results from an early online review of PureRaw 5.

Sadly, I pre-ordered PureRaw 5 and that means PureRaw 4 has been wiped from my list of installed software and the activation code is no longer shown in “My Software” nor in the purchase history. Fortunately PureRaw 4 is still alive on my computer, but I have no recourse if something happens to it and I decide not to “upgrade” to PureRaw 5. (Is PureRaw 5 actually suitable for release?)

I was unable to submit the online DXO Help Request form, so I had to screen print it as a PDF as an email attachment. It’s clear that you need to keep a running list document of your DXO activations .

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I pre-ordered PR 5 and downloaded this morning. Used with GFX 100 files. It is complete crap compared to previous version. Wasted money. I’m sad.

Rand

DXO Comparo
DXO Comparo1729×1142 357 KB

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Pentax shooters must put up with limited physical support.

Fuji shooters must put up with limited software support.

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So you used PureRaw 5 and tried both DeepPRIME XD2s and DeepPRIME 3?

The GFX 100 camera uses a Bayer filter (instead of the X-Trans) so it should work pretty well.

In my case, the Leica DNG files should have been easy for PureRaw 5, but I found the noise reduction in night work (and even for early twilight) was grossly inferior at the default settings.

I’m a little baffled regarding the actual differences between DeepPRIME 3 and DeepPRIME XD2s. The descriptions in PhotoLab 8 state that 3 offers “Ultimate quality”, and XD2s offers “Ultimate quality & extra details”, making one version “Ultimate” and the other “More Ultimate” (or "Ultimater)?

I think I’ll try to get a refund, and also get my PureRaw 4 fully restored to “My Software”. The Activation Key vanished from my account record.

DXO got back to me that they can’t handle PDF files, so I saved the PDF as four JPEG files and attached them to a response.

(Note to self: Record all DXO order details to a stand-alone document.)

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I too was surprised by the lack of X-trans C-MOS 5 sensor support in PureRAW 5, as I have both a X100VI and X-H2. Fortunately, I still have PureRAW 4 installed on my Mac. But I would hope that DxO eventually (quickly?) supports the higher-res X-Trans sensor and DOES NOT CHARGE for that upgrade!

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Yup. I’m very familiar with DXO Pure Raw (up through version 4) and its ability to extract superior detail to Adobe - even on GFX 100 files - is (or has been) amazing. The new version at defaults, side by side, is crap. I’m going to uninstall and reinstall just to confirm that something didn’t go amiss on install - but I’m not optimistic. Thank goodness I left 4 installed.

Rand

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Of course they are different. you are comparing DeepPRIME 3 to DeepPRIME XD2s. DeepPRIME 3 is a replacement for DeepPRIME not XD2S. DeepPRIME XD2s includes extra detail (thus the XD) and requires more time to process as a result.

For many images DP3 may be sufficient, but when more detail is required, especially on cropped images, XD/XD2S is often the better choice. I am not a PureRaw user but in PhotoLab you can choose between DeepPRIME 3, DeepPRIME XD/XD2s and DeepPRIME XD3 for X-Trans (Beta)

Mark

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So the big leap forward is removing noise but having LESS detail? I wonder who thought that would go over well… perhaps someone from the Trump team?

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In my case (some night work) PureRAW5 was less effective at noise reduction than PureRAW 4. I also see that PureRAW 4 got an update, but I never upgrade from the program – I download the file from the “My Software” link. But DXO had already purged the full PureRAW 4 listing from my account as soon as they took my money for the pre-order.

If you ask, they will refuse a refund for your pre-order. In the EU, you might have right of refusal, but just installing and opening the program enough just to find out it is unsuitable, eliminates any chance of a refund – from DXO’s point of view. Maybe residents of the EU will have better luck.

In the past, I’ve found that, regardless of the quality of the product, DXO has a culture of technical arrogance. It seems that they may have adopted a model of commercial arrogance.

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If you are referring to @Rand47’s image comparison, He is apparently comparing the wrong tools with each other, DeepPRIME 3 to DeepPRIME XD/XD2s.

What DxO has done is to make DeepPRIME 3 an improvement over DeepPRIME. It is faster, reduces a bit more noise, and increases detail a bit over DeepPRIME.

XD/XD2s is a different tool which requires significantly more resources, runs slower and can restore a greater amount of fine detail, but it is sometimes prone to artifacts and many users believe it also tends to over-sharpen some images.

I use both DeepPRIME 3 and XD2s depending on the image and on the crop. They are two different tools and their best use case depends on the image bring edited and user expectations for it.

It comes down to using the tool that best allows you to reach your goals for a particular image.

Fuji shooters with x-trans sensors should be using the XD3 Fuji x-trans beta, assuming their camera is supported. For them, any comparisons should be between DeepPRIME XD3 and XD/XD2s, not DeepPRIME 3.

Mark

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As I recall, DeepPRIME 3’s noise reduction settings can also be adjusted. Is that not so?

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Rand47 here. First, “thanks!” You’re exactly right in that I was expecting DeepPRIME 3 to be something it isn’t intended to be. So there’s that. But when I processed using XD2s “within” Pure Raw 5, the results were significantly poorer than using the exact same parameters with XD2s “within” Pure Raw 4.

BUT… (and it might be related to my “buttheadedness”)

I was able to push sliders about in PR 5 XD2s to replicate the “default” XD2s from Pure Raw 4, and then create a preset. So, all in all, I guess there’s more flexibility in Pure Raw 5 to fine tune results. So, mia culpa for the negative post. All in all this looks like a worthwhile update.

Rand

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That’s a pretty rational approach, and it points out that having simultaneous access to both PureRAW4 and PureRAW5 may be more important than with previous PureRAW upgrades – especially during a transition period. I think it might be more important for PureRAW than with PhotoLab because of the expected use – Most of us use PureRAW as a batch processor in addition to using it with individual or small sets of files. In PhotoLab, post processing is probably more single file focused.

This points out the problem with the EULAs we all agreed to: Once you install PureRAW with the license (instead of running the trial version for as long as you can) you will be in breach of the EULA if you continue to run the previous version that you upgraded from.

I think that DXO needs to take another look at their EULAs, especially as the software gets more capable and more complex. This almost looks like one of those “risk management” solutions that actually increases risk in other areas of their business practice.

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Have you come across any quantified claims/tests (by DXO, Marketing or one of their reviewers) regarding the speed of DeepPrime 3 over previous versions? I haven’t seen anything claiming a speed increase.

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Extrêmement déçu par la version 5 : les résultats sont ou bien imperceptibles ou alors pires que les originaux (essai avec des fichiers Canon CR2, Fuji XT3 et XT5), dans tous les cas bien inférieurs à ceux de la version 4. Il est impératif de revoir la copie.

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Rand, I had the same initial observation using both an OM-5 and a Z8. After processing several side by side tests I have found that the Lens Softness Corrections (sharpening) in PR5 at standard = 100% is equal to PR4 at soft = 75%. But there is a big jump in PR5 from standard to strong = 150%. So, be careful with the adjustment slider as it appears to be non-linear.

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Extremely disappointed by version 5: the results are either imperceptible or worse than the originals (test with Canon CR2, Fuji XT3 and XT5 files), in any case much lower than those of version 4. It is imperative to review the copy.

I am fortunate to have two identical BenQ monitors. Yesterday I looked at just three files simultaneously using PureRAW 5 and PureRAW 4. (According to DXO, using both versions simultaneously is a breach of the EULA since the installed PureRAW 5 upgrade license functionally replaces the PureRAW 4 license.)

The files were from a recently purchased Leica D-Lux 8 that I have been evaluating.

The files are; a night shot at a location I have used before, an evening shot of a building in the same city, and a “CA magnet” shot with small tree branches and pine needle clusters against an overcast sky, some distance from the camera.

I can guarantee that if you have used PureRAW in the past, you will need to spend some time comparing your older version with PureRAW 5. If you have years of photos that you might post-process again, it’s going to take some time – far more than DXO allows with the trial period.

One of the “problems” I’ve experienced is that as PureRAW has matured, sometimes it IS worth going back to some of your older photos. One picture I am fond of was shot in 2019 with a Fuji X100F. It was just prior to dawn and at the time, it was only acceptable in B&W. But when PureRAW came along, I was able to pull details out and make a nice color image – each upgrade to PureRAW has improved that photo.

I was really disappointed with the first files I ran through PureRAW 5 at default settings. Once I calmed down a bit, and read a few comments here, I started digging into the settings and getting a handle on what I needed to take advantage of PureRAW 5. But running 4 and 5 simultaneously has been key to making my first stabs equivalent settings. I’ll probably be fiddling around for months.

Some of this is DXO’s fault. I have long held that DXO is an exemplar when it comes to technical arrogance. Add to that my recent “appreciation” of their marketing arrogance. They seem focused on the hype for PureRAW 5, rather than the practical application of the software. There should have been a strong advisory on their web site and in the notification emails sent to those who pre-ordered an upgrade:

NOTE: DXO Labs strongly recommends that customers who are upgrading from earlier versions of PureRAW install the trial version first. This will allow you to become familiar with PureRAW 5 and enable you to adjust your current work flow to take advantage of the improvements in PureRAW 5. Once you register your PureRAW 5 License Key, your license to the earlier version of PureRAW is no longer in effect.

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One big question for PR5 (compared to PR4), can it be closed properly on Windows like others apps ?

since v4, it does not close properly and remenber all the time my previously processed files. The only way to close it is mostly to use the tray icon (which is just wrong) or to “kill it” in the Task Mananger.

Also, the fact it registered itself to start on Windows startup, is a big non sense.

If they remove toses issues, it would justify the upgrade for me. Even if the algorythm does not look much besser/worth. Or maybe when XD3 will be available for Bayer.

Cheers

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I own both versions - PureRaw4 and 5 now… since few days… so far had big problems with 5… the selected folder for my DNGs was not working correct… sometimes the first DNG was stored in the original folder instead of a subfolder… and following DNGs then in subfolder as I wanted… one or two times all DNGs stored in correct sub folder… all last attempts… only stored in original folder… wrong…

Controlled everything in Mac system adjustments… the rights… nothing changed… very odd behavior… it really seems the new version 5 was not ready for release!

So started to use PureRaw4 again - it worked as i wanted. Here I also had often the problem that at first trial the sw was doing something wrong… examples: first DNG in wrong folder… or first DNG renamed correct… following different… all should be named in same form in batch processing… so a bit used to odd behavior …

So really disappointed to read this thread… that additionally the base settings give totally different results!! Time is money - do not want to spend my free time to evaluate every new version how I receive similar results as before…

DxO? What’s up here… please do your job in base programming right first… i am too old for beta testing. Like the results if it works.

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can it be that DeepPrime XD3 does not support Sony cameras like a7III and a7rV?

Is that still coming, since it says Beta? Or do I have to check a box somewhere to activate the beta function?