I’ve noticed some subtle color rendering changes with PLv6;
Pre PLv6, when the Color Rendering tool was deactivated - the result would default to the Generic Rendering for the DxO Camera Profile … That is, DxO’s rendering for the camera body.
Now, with PLv6, it defaults to Generic Rendering - Neutral Color
– This can be easily confirmed by assigning these settings and toggling Color Rendering activation
I know that quite a few (experienced) PL users apply Generic Rendering - Neutral Color as their starting-point for Color Rendering;
– However, with the Wide Gamut WCS, I’m noticing that this rendering causes some colour-shifts in saturated colours … for example, saturated orange-colours shift to bright-reds … etc.
As an alternative to consider, I’ve found Camera Body = DxO One to be very natural … an excellent starting point - and without the colour-shift issues noted above.
– I’m guessing that DxO put solid work into this, to reflect well on their own “One” camera.
And, of course, to be sure that what you’re seeing on-screen/within-PL is exactly what you’ll get when you Export-to-Disk and view the result on the same monitor … always have Soft Proofing activated.
Neutral presets and DPL6 don’t agree with each other currently. Until DxO fixes this, DPL6 is not ready for action, unless one is willing to start with DPL6 as if it were some other app: learn from scratch. For all who have used non-neutral presets, the upgrade to DPL6 is possibly less annoying…
The benefit of using a neutral preset is about seeing the potential, it’s not about “better”.
It’s about having a canvas and a palette instead of some “happy meal”.
I like to see what’s in a photo (before I start editing) and neutral presets provided
that capability so far, while presets like DxO Standard e.g. often hide what’s in the lights
Coming from film photography, I prefer natural colours to what we often call the “digital” look
Yes and no. What’s the difference between a) having to tone down an image to only then discover what has been hiding behind a preset’s “magic” agains b) tuning something that shows its potential right from the start? A flat image might look unexciting at first, but I prefer to make it shine myself.
Highlight recovery? Many apps brag about their ability to recover highlights…which is easy to prove if you first blow them by whatever setting is applied by default: A few of my old images always lit the “blown highlight” warning in earlier DxO apps, but DxO has corrected this issue over the last few years. Nevertheless, I often find DxO’s processing too heavy handed.
Example: Monument Valley with overcast sky as seen with different presets, Can you see the differences in your browser?
With PLv5, if you assign Color Rendering to Generic/Camera Profile - then toggle CR On/Off, there would be no change to the resulting color rendering
– That is, the DxO profile for your camera (E-M5) was the PLv5 default setting for Color Rendering
With PLv6, if you assign Color Rendering to Generic/Neutral color - then toggle CR On/Off, there will be no change to the resulting color rendering
– That is, for PLv6, Generic/Neutral color is now the default setting for Color Rendering.
Nothing to do with the working color space setting.
@John-M I am not sure that my computer agrees with your statement, i.e. I don’t think that is what I see with respect to PL6, presuming that I understand what you say, and I am starting with the correct settings and going where you suggest I go!? The camera has changed in this case because I am using one of my images instead of an @Hugo image!?
I have selected ‘Camera profile’ and the adjustment is ‘active’:-
What have I done wrong!? In all cases the Beyond Compare comparisons are between exported JPGs not between the screen grabs (although that could also be done but my grabs are not identical in shape, haven’t mastered that bit yet but could have just grabbed the whole screen).
I was aware that it had nothing to do with the WCS, set to ‘legacy’ these tests.
I am sorry if I appear “puzzled” by some of this but during my testing I have encountered situations where the drop down options for ‘Rendering’ are severely curtailed and have not been able to identify the exact sequence necessary to reproduce the “restricted” list and whether it is legitimate or …
With respect to your observations and my testing please correct any errors in my process, I will repeat the tests with PL5 when I have more time!
Test repeated in test directory (not original file directory). [M]aster contains image with ‘Neutral Color’ and VC contains ‘Camera Profile’. First entry with CR=ON, second entry with CR=OFF.
Summary of comparisons
Row 1:- NC (CR=ON) versus NC (CR=OFF) & CP (CR=ON) versus CP (CR=OFF)
Row 2:- NC versus CP (CR=ON) & NC versus CP (CR=OFF)
Comparing PL5 with PL6 currently has a complication! I did PL6 tests first and there is a ‘Tone Curve’ in use and replicating that exactly in PL5 is … The tests should have been done without the tone curve or a PL5 preset created and imported into PL6, presets don’t go the other way!
Until a few days ago, I never noticed a difference with Color Rendering on or off as specified above. But a few days ago I did and simply attributed it to the “Protect saturated colors” slider not being zero. You have it set to “1” in your first comparison, Bryan. Is there still a difference if it’s zero?
You didn’t set the Working Color Space to DxO Wide Gamut. That’s the only case where neutral color should be the same as disabling the Color Rendering palette. Otherwise, with the Legacy/Classic WCS, DxO camera rendering is more or less the same as having Color Rendering off.
John, this is a wonderful post that, I think, makes things clearer.
Unfortunately, for me, it also highlights how difficult it makes using PL6 for the uninitiated who have never before had top make such “life changing” decisions, as to choosing default renderings, etc.
I still find myself putting off making the jump to PL6 and am continuing with PL5 for work I need to do without all this extra consideration.
Anyway, I am in the midst of preparing a small exhibition and it is all B&W Jazz photos, so I could really care less about colour gamut
@John-M I am not overthinking this at all, I am attempting to verify your statement in a reproducible manner and gathering the evidence so that I can evaluate whether I understand what you have said and agree with your statement in full or am still “lost”.
One of the “problems” with a topic like this one is that we are talking about visual aspects that are being perceived by users, in their homes with their settings! The “need” for exporting is to be able to undertake a reproducible, quantitative assessment rather than a subjective, qualitative assessment particularly when I have typically used ‘Generic Rendering’/‘DxO camera profile …’ rendering and not “bothered” with anything else!
Are you taking into account whether ‘Protected saturated colors’ is set to ‘Auto’ or being left at ‘0’ as @Egregius indicated that the snapshot showed a setting of 1 rather than 0 , given that the ‘Auto’ setting does nothing with ‘Wide Gamut’, i.e. it doesn’t “work” (and it doesn’t make “much” difference)!
Which of the parameters makes any difference at all is immediately obvious when an image is exported and compared, albeit using a JPG which is itself subject to algorithms to compress the image!
Incidentally, when you made your original statement about the change you did not explicitly state that you were comparing PL6 with ‘DxO Wide Gamut’ to PL5, i.e. not a “like with like” comparison but a “new with old” comparison!
My tests above were deliberately comparing PL5 with PL6(Legacy) to verify, or otherwise, DxO maintaining the “status quo”. I exported because I haven’t evaluated the accuracy of ‘Soft Proofing’!?
So back to your challenge but quantitatively assessed and part of a larger test that I had already started but may not complete depending on the outcome of this evaluation!
Copy the RAW image to 2 directories PL5 and PL6. Then add PL6(WG) as a result of @Egregius responding to my earlier post! This grew somewhat until I wound up with
(which I added to for this post - being a pedant has its price!!)
Add 4 VCs to each [M]aster which is assigned the ‘5 - No correction’ preset as set in the ‘Preferences’.
The [M]aster is to remain unchanged but the VCs are set up as follows (and this is a change of order compared with the previous test, i.e. it is now Neutral on and off, followed by Camera on and off)
VC1 = Neutral colour, realistic tonality (gamma…) on PL5 and ‘Neutral Color’ on PL6 CR=ON
VC2 = VC1 settings but CR=OFF
VC3 = ‘DxO camera profile (DC-G9)’ on both releases
VC4 = VC3 settings but CR-OFF)
Export all Images from [M] to VC in 2 directories using PL5 and PL6 ‘Classic (Legacy)’ etc.
Now for the @John-M “challenge” using data already created for my other tests but verified for this test!!
I have had problems getting consistent results because of errors in settings but these appear to fit with your analysis with the “slight” caveat that the ‘Psc’ option has a slight impact and you do need to export and compare and provide snapshots if you intend to prove something to a doubting “Thomas”!
Previous tests have shown PL5 (Psc=Auto) versus PL6(L)(Psc=Auto) and PL5(Psc=0) versus PL6(L)(Psc=0) produce identical results in the above tests scenario.
If the change is documented then it is a “feature” if not then it is a "bug and should be reported as such @DxO_Support-Team.
If the lack of a working ‘Auto’ feature with PL6(WG) is documented with a good reason then it is a “feature” if not then it is a “bug” and I should report it!!
@Required ‘1 - DxO Standard’ is one of the “standard presets” provided by DxO, as is ‘3 - Neutral colors’ they “happen” to invoke one or other of the ‘Color rendering’ options that @John-M is referencing, i.e. ‘1 - DxO Standard’ uses ‘DxO camera profile…’ and ‘3 - Neutral colors’ uses ‘Neutral color’ on PL6 and ‘Neutral color, neutral tonality v2’ on PL5 which is actually different to the option I had chosen which was the next option (the last option) in the list, so I need to repeat the tests or not, life is too short!