Mike, even 20 years ago that would have been a really bad idea. Why would you ever want complete strangers looking at your photos to know exactly where you lived and what your phone number was? Even more concerning, if you have your address and phone number stored rn a photograph that you posted online and then indicated in the accompanying text that you are about to leave for a 3 month photo shoot in India., you would have been asking to have your apartment robbed.
Mark
Time to go to sleep, but before I do, we had a really spectacular sunset this evening - grabbed my camera and took several photos at different settings. Later, after an hour of trying to get the colors right, and not liking anything I did, I gave up and changed to B&W. Even then it was difficult to get something I liked. This is the end result:
780_5699 | 2024-06-13.nef (28.0 MB)
780_5699 | 2024-06-13.nef.dop (61.1 KB)
780_5699 | 2024-06-13.xmp (2.3 KB)
Once it gets large enough to see the details, I like it.
Two minutes after I started shooting, what I liked about the scene was gone.
I feel rather worn out by all this, but the bottom line is you were correct, and I apparently forgot most of how to use PhotoMechanic over the years. Thank you! This dates back over 20 years. When I got it running, I followed what the sports photographers were doing, but in todayâs world, thatâs no longer a good idea. I liked the way PhotoMechanic downloaded my files to my computer in a very organized way, renaming files and folders to make it easier to find things many years later.
There used to be lots of articles on how to set it up, but this is from 15 or 20 years ago, probably earlier. Back then I was actively doing sports photography, and it made life easier for me. As I recall, I was getting new copies of Adobe Lightroom every few years, as it was updated. Of course all of this was with Windows back then.
Curious - do you understand all that? I have no idea what it is, or does, or why it might be useful.
At some point in time, I need to get involved in DAM again. Lightroom used to keep track of all my photos, and Photo Mechanic can do it now - but I need to take a break, set it up, and start using it. It would be nice to be able to search by keywords again!
Glad itâs sorted out. PhotoMechanic is a powerful program to automate many administrative tasks for file management, but it adds another layer of complexity to remember. Good luck going forward.
Well, to be honest, I really do need a way to track where my old photos are, like I used to do in Lightroom. I donât know where/how to start, but PhotoMechanic now has a version that includes that. Iâm pretty sure I have the new version, but havenât even begun to figure out how it works. 
Joanna has something like this figured out.
Another factor - I used to take many hundreds of photos a week, and now it is perhaps dozens of photos. Back when I was âworkingâ, I thought I had to keep track of them. Then I started to post them to my gallery, m.smugmug.com and life got easier for me.
I now shoot perhaps 25 photos in a typical week. Much easier to keep track of, as long as I remember how to find them.
On the other hand, Florida + rain + hundred degree temps = much less incentive to capture new photos.
Note that CameraBits is changing to a subscription model for Photo Mechanic soon. I forget the deadline.
But - Is this something you really want to learn on top of PL and Darktable? Perhaps if you are still doing event shooting with a fast turnaround required, but does this make sense for hobby use?
Can a decent file system and Smugmug suffice as your âcatalogâ?
Apple has some good search functions by default and in the Photos app.
Smugmug also has a search function that works on keywords and other metadata as well as raw file storage at an additional cost.
(https://Smugmug content management)
This may be sufficient for 25 photos/week, presuming you really want to save 1300 photos/year. Thatâs not many for a photojournalist, but for a hobbyist?
Perhaps @joanna can help you map out a simpler workflow/organization system via PMs.
(Note to others⊠sorry for veering from PL-related discussions)
Mike,
I just had a quick look at this before going to bed. I did not spend time analyzing it or looking at it in too much detail. My gut reaction from that brief look was that this is the nicest image of the bay you have posted here. At first glance I thought the airplane on the left might be a distraction that should be removed but upon more thought I believe I would probably keep it.
Before @Joanna reminds you about it, your watermark is still a distraction, even in a monochrome image. I know you like to use it and perhaps to you it is like an artistâs signature on a painting. However, keep in mind that if you think the watermark will somehow protect your image from theft, they are easily removed. On the positive side the watermark, happily, is quite small relative to the size of the image
Mark
after we bumped your nose right into it
Please stop this silly argument, especially when people are helping YOU.
So, now, we get to the root cause of the problem. The PhotoMechanic docs show the kind of information that you can add but doesnât tell you what you should add.
PhotoMechanic also offers you the choice of writing its metadata directly to RAW files or to XMP sidecars.
Which path you choose depends on your anticipated usage of your image files, especially your RAW images.
My workflow is simpleâŠ
connect my camera to my Mac with a USB cable
open the Image Capture app that comes free with macOS
open a Finder window and create the folder structure for storing the files
drag selected files from Image Capture to the destination folder(s) in Finder
open the images in PhotoLab and edit them
export any images, choosing whether or not I want to include metadata
use the exported file and delete it, knowing I can regenerate it at any time.
Your latest XMP file shows me that you are making life hard for yourself, possibly doing a great deal more than necessary.
It shows that, somehow, crd (Camera Raw Defaults) tags have been written and these only usually come from an Adobe product like Adobe Camera Raw or Lightroom. Are you using one of these? If not, where are these tags coming from?
Once you have been through ingesting your files, what do you use to search for existing files and what attributes do you search on?
Depending on your replies, will inform me as to how to simplify your workflow.
Yes, but you could also add keywords using PhotoMechanic. But my app is much simpler and convenient as it only deals with Keywords, Descriptions, Finder Tags and Star Ratings. It also allows the creation of Saved Searches, which can be used a bit like projects, based on simple search criteria. But, most important for me and one of the primary reasons why I wrote it, is that it displays and searches all files in all sub-folders of the currently selected folder.
I organise my folders like thisâŠ
If I want to look for an image that I took at Locquirec, I simply click on that folder in the tree view. If I know the year, I can drill down to that, as for if I know the month and day.
Or, I can choose the year and the browser will show me the images in the nested sub-folders, all at the same timeâŠ
This is no different to browsing images in Finderâs columns view. And, in fact, the only additional thing that my app does that Finder doesnât do is to provide a means for adding keywords, stars and descriptions. A search brings up all images from all sub-folders below the chosen folder and divides them into sections for each found folder. Selecting an image shows the keywords (and other attributes) that have been addedâŠ
But this is not much more than Finder can doâŠ
Once you have found the desired image, simply double-click on it to open it in PhotoLab.
The main word here is âinertiaâ. For maybe 30 or 40 years, I used t belong to www.sportsshooter.com where many sports photograph photographers used to share ideas, buy and sell camera gear, and talk about âthe latestâ. They all seemed to be using PhotoMechanic, quickly sharing their event photos with the main office, so images could be posted even during a sports event. Now itâs pretty much closed down, but it is where I used to hang out, and learn.
My workflow is still the same as ages ago, cover an event, use PhotoMechanic to copy my images from memory card to computer - then cull out the poor images, and eventually narrow the choice down to maybe the best 25 images which I would send to the various magazines I worked for, here and abroad, along with a race report, and a list of the racers in the main event, along with what chassis they used, what engine, and all the other information the readers wanted to know.
Iâm still doing this, but scaled down. Last night I saw this beautiful sunset, took four photos, used PhotoMechanic to transfer them (and various data) to my computer. Had I taken 40 images, 400, or thousands, the bad images would have been deleted. While âingestingâ the images, PhotoLab modified the file name and the folder name, to make the names more useful in the future.
Long ago, images went into Lightroom. Now they stay where PhotoMechanic puts them. There is a main folder with images, a sub-folder for âexported imagesâ (the images I processed) created by PhotoLab. Those are the final images for that âeventâ. It works fine for a sports event or a visit to my family, or a trip to India, or even a short event as in last nightâs four sunset images - I stopped when the light went away.
Anyway, thatâs the history for me, and it works with all my cameras, and all my computers, and Iâm reasonably good at finding things later - but I know I need better âDAMâ (photo management software and how to effectively use it).
Thank you - I spent an hour or two trying to get a color image I liked, but I wasnât satisfied with anything I could do. So I gave up and tried with B&W. Of all the DxO Presets I tried, only one was satisfactory, so I worked with that one. I was so frustrated, because I couldât get a finished image that I liked - but B&W was a whole different world.
I noticed the dirt speck, which became a plane, and I left it in place, as I liked where it was in that photo.
I honestly believed that data came from my camera. Nothing I tried worked, but I could see all that data clear as day in the Nikon editor. That led me back to PhotoMechanic, and as soon as I found âcopyright 2021â I knew I found it. Not knowing how PhotoMechanic worked, I called Tech Support and they sent me more information, and showed me that there were check boxes to tell PhotoMechanic whether or not to include each bit of data. Eventually the flood-gates opened, and it all became âobviousâ - itâs like picking up my Nikon F4 camera, with absolutely no idea what to do next. If anyone knows the F4, they will know what I mean. The earlier Nikon F cameras were just basic cameras. The F4 was infinitely more complex than my newer digital Nikons. KEH had another F4 with digital back for sale for such a low price that I bought it. Itâs nice to look at, but I doubt I will ever use it again. The only film camera Iâve used in the past 10 years is my Leica M3.
I donât understand what youâre even referring to. An argument? Thereâs nothing to argue about, Iâm just re-learning stuff I completely forgot. Itâs like my Windows laptop that I constantly used for maybe a decade - I turn it on now, and start thinking - what do I do now? Itâs a Lenovo W530 with add-ons (I think) and I canât remember how to do anything with it. No wonder I canât remember PhotoMechanic.
From force of habit, I do know how to use PhotoMechanic, but Iâve long since forgotten how or why I set it up the way it is. When I got PhotoMechanic, my Mac computers didnât exist, there was no âImage Captureâ app, and all my image editing changed to Adobe Lightroom, where I would get a new CD every so often (or I was given a copy of the software from a friend).
This is the first time Iâve posted the XMP file - usually I have only been posting the original image, the .dop file, and my edited image.
Thatâs probably because I was using Adobe Lightroom? Yes, I still have the Adobe Photo Plan, so I still have both PhotoShop and Lightroom, and some other utilities. I hardly ever use any of that, now that Iâve switched to PhotoLab.
Just my memory, which we both know is terrible. I no longer have a good search tool, although I can configure PhotoMechanic to do that when/if I want to try to get it set up.
The workflow is very simple now - Camera > PhotoMechanic > PhotoLab.
Since I already bought and paid for the PhotoMechanic tools for organizing and searching, I should at least try to learn it. I donât know very much about your app.
Itâs now going on 10am, and I keep putting off breakfast. I need to do that first, followed by doing laundry and other boring things. At least the non-stop rain has stopped, but so many people who live in my area have flooded homes and cars - itâs really quite miserable. If you check the news for South Florida, youâll see how horrible things are here for SO many people. Very sad.
I take it you mean one main folder per event?
And I am guessing you mean Photo Mechanic here as PhotoLab doesnât do anything like that automatically?
If Photo Mechanic can add and search on keywords, then it is more than adequate (if not too adequate) for managing your files. But, then, as I pointed out, as long as you have an app for adding keywords, macOS already has the extremely powerful Spotlight indexing and searching mechanism built in to Finder. Want to find all shots taken at f/5.6?
This search took less than a second to return all 1,892 images in the Photos folder or any of its sub-folders.
In that case, you really need to re-organise what PM does because, if you are not using Lightroom or ACR, that can be the only place that the crd tags are coming from and they are totally unnecessary and meaningless working in PhotoLab.
Normally, there is no need to post XMP files as you seem to be also writing the same metadata to the image file as well. And this is something that can cause problems when using the metadata in PhotoLab.
In the world of data management, we use the acronym SPOD (single point of definition) to make sure that any data is only ever held in one place so, if it needs changing, you donât end up with conflicts or one point of definition hiding another.
When PhotoLab reads a RAW image file, it first looks for an XMP sidecar for its metadata. If it finds one, it displays the metadata it finds there. But, if it doesnât find an XMP sidecar, it then goes on to look in the RAW file to see if the metadata has been written there. It then adds what it finds to the PL database.
Now, that seem all fine and logical but - if you change something like the keywords from within PL, and those keywords only existed in the RAW file, they will not get written back to the RAW file but, instead, to the XMP sidecar.
This then means that you now have three points of definition - the RAW file, the XMP sidecar and the database.
If you then pass that RAW file to someone else, they may read the metadata from there. But, if you pass the XMP file as well as the RAW file, it will all depend on the software they use to read it as to which version of the keywords they will see. Of course, this also applies to any other metadata like IPTC, etc, not just keywords.
Yes you do. I just said you can use the built-in Finder search. It is extremely powerful and is updated as soon as a file with metadata is added to your computer.
Except that has also changed to a subscription model. So, now you will be paying regularly, not only for Adobe software, which you donât need but, also, Photo Mechanic, which you donât really need for the kind of use you are making of it.
Likewise, I have Camera > Finder > my app > PhotoLab.
Well, if you like, I could send you a copy to play with. Itâs really very simple.
I know it was only a trial but it demonstrates that getting a good result seems like a lot more work.
I took your file, opened it without the DOP, did virtually nothing to it and exported itâŠ
At least the colour temperature looks something like all the other photos you have taken across the bay. Where on earth did DarkTable get that rendering from?
Then thereâs the question of why you have posted yet another image file with all your personal informationâŠ
[EXIF] Artist : Mike Myers
[EXIF] Copyright : ? 2021, Mike Myers (*your phone number*)
[EXIF] User Comment : Mike Myers, (*your email address*)
[XMP] City : Miami Beach
[XMP] State : Florida
[XMP] Country : USA
[XMP] Authors Position : Photographer
[XMP] Credit : Mike Myers
[XMP] Caption Writer : Mike Myers
[XMP] Creator : Mike Myers
[XMP] Rights : © 2021, Mike Myers (*your phone number*)
[XMP] Creator Address : (*your house address*)
[XMP] Creator City : (*your city*)
[XMP] Creator Region : (*your state*)
[XMP] Creator Postal Code : (*your Zip code*)
[XMP] Creator Country : USA
[XMP] Creator Work Telephone : (*your phone number*)
[XMP] Creator Work Email : (*your email address*)
And the XMP contains the same!!!
But it also contains all thisâŠ
crd:Exposure2012="0.00"
crd:Highlights2012="0"
crd:Shadows2012="0"
crd:LuminanceSmoothing="35"
crd:LuminanceNoiseReductionDetail="75"
crd:LuminanceNoiseReductionContrast="0"
crd:ColorNoiseReduction="10"
crd:ColorNoiseReductionDetail="50"
crd:ColorNoiseReductionSmoothness="50"
crd:Sharpness="44"
crd:SharpenRadius="2.00"
crd:SharpenDetail="25"
crd:SharpenEdgeMasking="0"
crd:Contrast2012="15"
crd:Saturation="-1"
crd:CameraProfile="Camera Standard"
Which I can only assume also came from Photo Mechanic, since you state you do not use any Adobe tools.
The idea is that you tell Photo Mechanic not to write to the RAW file - only to the XMP sidecar. Then because you donât need to post the XMP file here to show the image, nobody will be able to see all that confidential stuff.
Mostly, but every time I remove my memory card from a camera, I back that card up into a new folder(s), then format the card after placing it back in the camera. Hereâs a typical screen display:
Yes, I meant to type PhotoMechanic - my fingers have a mind of their own.
I havenât thought much about what I want - I keep putting it off. I hadnât even considered âspotlight searchâ. I might want to search for photos based on location, time & date, camera type, what the occasion was for - I need to spend some time and write down what I want. Lightroom solved the problem perfectly. But I have no plans to go back to Lightroom.
I agree.
I can return to ignoring the XMP files, but they have been copied to my computer for as long as I can remember. Hmmm, I wasnât aware PL used, or read the XMP files?
Having already paid for the PhotoMechanic + DAM software, and since I will be using PhotoMechanic forever, I should first check out what it is, how it works, and how much complexity it will add to my life. Thank you for the offer - I will write you back when I am ready. Iâve been feeling overwhelmed by all these things. Maybe I need to concentrate on something simple for a bit, like âcalculus and analytic geometryâ or Einsteinâs theory of relativity. Or perhaps whether everything in the world is really part of a simulation that someone/something has created, and none of it is really ârealâ. 
âŠa more serious thought - photography, and everything related to it, is one of the things I have most enjoyed over my past 80 years. Itâs relaxing, confusing, creative, frustrating, exciting, and fun, all at the same time!!! To me, itâs certainly a better use of my time than watching stupid TV shows, or sports events. Itâs my own âfaultâ that Iâm allowing it to get so⊠involving!
No donât!!! They are more important and more useful than writing stuff to the RAW file. Rather switch off writing to the RAW files.
PL only uses XMP files for writing to. It never writes to the RAW file (as I previously explained - please take the time to read my post on the subject). It only reads from the RAW file if there is no XMP sidecar, but then it creates and writes everything back to the XMP.
Correction. Due to a change in their licensing https://home.camerabits.com, you now only own PM as long as you donât upgrade the operating system. Then it switches to rental.
No problem. Iâll even give you a hands on tutorial via screen sharing if you want? it really is a lot simpler than anything else youâve ever used.
I called Camera Bits, and had an hour long session with Andrew, who connected to my computer, explained how the software works, and showed me how to use it. With one click I can (and did) update all the copyright information to 2024 for this yearâs photos.
More to come. I should have done this years ago.
Iâm not sure how theyâd come from Photomechanic, theyâre edits are they not? I donât think PM has that degree of functionality - Iâm curious, Iâll have a look in my copy when I get a chance, I have D850 images and Iâm licensed for PM Plus (pre-subscription that is, another one thatâs not keen on the new licensing model)
Iâm not currently using Adobe tools, but they are installed on my computer, available should I simply open PhotoShop or LightRoom. Adobe keeps them up to date.
I hardly ever open an image file with an Adobe tool.
Not sure if this matters, or is relevant.
You, or anyone else, may find this video useful to show some of the newer features of PhotoMechanic:
The personal demonstration went way beyond this, and answered most of my questions.
I donât doubt that your version might be much easier - but in the demo, they showed how to correct all my 2021 copyright information, with the proper wording and for 2024, in one click.
I thought it was also handy to see all of my 2024 photos in a grid. Even if I forget things, this might be a handy way to find photos Iâve lost track of.
Also, here is a list of articles, if you ever want to read up on PhotoMechanic:
You only âunderstandâ, what you like to âŠ
In case you still donât understand, we took care of you - and youâre still playing the innocent.
And ⊠stop cherry picking when you quote or do I need to put up another screenshot?
