Part 2 - Off-Topic - advice, experiences, and examples for images being processed in DxO Photolab

[mikemyers]

It’s not logical, but it is more emotional. Why do I take photos at all? I do so because I enjoy it. I bought the D3 what feels like a lifetime ago, spending more money than I had any right to spend - never mind that the money came from the payments to me for race coverage.

It’s not enough to compare the specs of any of my cameras to what else is available - to me, it’s better to compare my photographs to those from “the masters of photography”. Their photos, using ancient camera gear, are what inspire me. As far as I know, they used whatever cameras they had access to, and for many of them, the main feature of the cameras was that they be rugged, and not die. This especially applies to the war photographers.

I accept that in every way I can imagine, my D780 is the best camera I now own, and that’s what I will be traveling with, as in my next trip to India. My biggest challenge is in capturing photos that I like, which requires more from ME, not from my camera(s).

I love getting feedback here, even if the feedback is very negative. Of my friends and family, all I get is compliments, which won’t help me improve. I learn when people tell me what I did wrong, not from what they tell me when I did right.

Both my D780 and my D3 and my three “best” lenses sit on my coffee table. I’d like to take a camera wherever I go, and see what I can “find” to photograph. I fully understand how limiting the 2007 D3 is compared to my D780, but the quality (or lack of) from the photograph comes from me, not my camera. The D780 makes life easier for me. But it’s more important where I take the photo from, how I frame it, how I compose it, and so on. I often feel very frustrated because of my inability to find something “good”. After all, it is ME that is taking the photo, not my camera. …but the camera does help - a lot!

…added later - I wish that more of you were posting images here. I used to enjoy viewing them, and asking questions - but hardly anyone does so any more. The forum is PhotoLab, and I’d love to see how more of you are using it…

[underexposed]

@mikemyers

Their photos, using ancient camera gear, are what inspire me.

In 2024 we can stop

@Joanna

faffing with all these esoteric or old cameras

and use

@mikemyers

my D780 is the best camera I now own

with Film pack or Nik Analog Efex.

That is if it is really the photos that inspire you and not

@Joanna

faffing with all these esoteric or old cameras

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

faffing with all these esoteric or old cameras

Hmm, according to what some misinformed people think, your D850 is now in that category, and you (and I) should wake up to Mirrorless. Ha!!!

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

… to me, it’s better to compare my photographs to those from “the masters of photography”. Their photos, using ancient camera gear, are what inspire me

I get the impression that you think that you would get better photos if you used the same cameras as “the masters of photography”. But you know this to be utter rubbish.

My D850 is a black box with a hole at the front and a light-sensitive recording medium at the back. I can change the size of the hole and how long the hole is open for.

How is that any different from the cameras of yesterday? What has changed is that a lot of folks expect the camera to do all the work for them, as opposed to the photographers back then, who had to think and work out how to take the best photo.

My photo of the window blind was taken on a 20 year old low resolution camera (D100) 20 years ago. If I still had it today, would I use it instead of my D850? Of course not! My foray into LF photography was an attempt to create (very) large prints - something the D100 could never do unless I stitched loads of images together.

If I could have bought a D850 back then, would I have gone into LF photography? From a practical point of view, I doubt if I would have bothered. But LF work grounded me in the principles of good photography in a way that modern digital would not have done, so that I know when I take a shot that it will come out perfectly exposed and focused, without having to look at a screen on the back of the camera to see if it worked.

@mikemyers

Hmm, according to what some misinformed people think, your D850 is now in that category, and you (and I) should wake up to Mirrorless. Ha!!!

Ha!!! An LF field camera is the ultimate mirrorless camera that you can bend to get everything in focus. I’d like to see someone bend a Z8 without having to spend a small fortune on a tilt-shift lens.

As you have often acknowledged, it is the photographer that makes the image, not the camera. How often have I used my LF camera in the past ten years? Regrettably, in some ways, over the past 8 years, never. Why? Because modern high resolution digital cameras have taken away the need too. Do I miss using old cameras? That’s a bit like saying why don’t you go back to wearing clip-on earrings, because the relief you get when you take them off is exquisite

“The thing that excites me is, that in not too many years we are going to have an entirely new medium of expression in the electronic image. So, I’ve seen what could happen to the print reproduced by the laser scanner and how that is enhanced and that is just the beginning. I’ve also seen some magnificent electronic images—direct electrical—not pictures of pictures and I know the potential is there and it’s going to be wonderful.”

Ansel Adams.

---

@mikemyers

The D780 makes life easier for me

No it doesn’t. You are the one that continually states that you find it difficult to know what settings and menu items to change.

If you insist on going back to an old camera, go back to one that just has aperture, shutter speed and ISO - no more - and relearn the principles of photography instead of relying on technology, which seems to interfere with your creative process rather than enhancing it.

Better still, make a viewing frame with a 3" x 2" aperture in it and take that out for a walk, looking for images and compositions. When you find something that works, then and only then, get your D780 out and record it. Then you will be using your camera to do what is is intended to do record the image, rather than using it to force an image to fit in the viewfinder, in the hope that anything wrong can be "fixed " in post-processing.

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

I get the impression that you think that you would get better photos if you used the same cameras as “the masters of photography”. But you know this to be utter rubbish.

You used the correct word, “rubbish”. Their genius came from within them, certainly not the camera I used…

but…

20 years ago, when I was struggling to create the images the other radio control car racing masters used, I decided my camera at the time (D70?) was inadequate. So, I got the equipment the better photographers were using, the D2x (later D3) and an 80-200 Nikon lens. The combination worked, along with my learning a lot more, studying what they did, and using it as a guide. So, life was good, except that I was still the “98 pound weakling” shown in comic books.

When the D2x came out, it improved things, but the D3 (with an FX sensor, two memory cards, and a greatly improved control system) was almost perfection, with one huge problem - weight. The D3 and my heavy, steel, 80-200 Nikkor weighed so much it was hurting my back. Then the D750 was introduced, and I compared it to the D800 and Df (at a Nikon exhibit at B&H Photo) and bought the D750. Life was good again, with the 80-200 weight being more than I could deal with, so I sold it to a friend. I thought I could do as much, maybe more, with the D750 than the D3, and I think you and I would agree the D750 was far better for me in so many ways. Did I think it would help me get better photos than the professional guys who did this for a living? Yes - if I did my part properly. This went on for maybe ten years or so, when I “retired”. By then, the magazines weren’t so involved in major races, as the R/C car world was shrinking quickly. Bottom line, no, I do not think I will ever get as good as “the masters of photography”, but in my world, my photos became as good, or better, than the professionals covering these races.

@Joanna

My D850 is a black box with a hole at the front and a light-sensitive recording medium at the back. I can change the size of the hole and how long the hole is open for… What has changed is that a lot of folks expect the camera to do all the work for them, as opposed to the photographers back then, who had to think and work out how to take the best photo.

You are right and wrong - what has changed, is that the camera focused better and faster, allowing the photographer to select the perfect moment - or more likely to put the camera in “burst mode” knowing he could pick the best photo later. The newer cameras were faster, and more accurate. Check out the Z9 which can take more photos in a few seconds than I would likely take in a week. For action shooting, this makes a huge difference. For you, taking all the time you want to set things up perfectly, this capability is useless. For me, shooting bird photos, or cars, or racing, I am much more likely to get a technically better photo when I have 100 to choose from, rather than 3 or 4.

@Joanna

No it doesn’t. You are the one that continually states that you find it difficult to know what settings and menu items to change.

True, but capturing a good racing image is so much better and easier with the new cameras. That’s more important, than my struggling with menus, and if I knew more, I’d already know what menu settings to use…

@Joanna

Then you will be using your camera to do what is is intended to do record the image, rather than using it to force an image to fit in the viewfinder, in the hope that anything wrong can be "fixed " in post-processing.

I know this works for you, but for me it’s useless advice, as most of the time it’s like a sports image, when there is one moment to capture the best image, and I have to see it in real time. My way - decide with my eye and my mind what I want, and be ready to capture the scene at the perfect moment. (But I understand, if I took photos like most of yours, this could be useful.) I often don’t know when the perfect moment will happen, or if it will ever happen, in which case I do my best anyway.

[underexposed]

@Joanna

Better still, make a viewing frame with a 3" x 2" aperture in it and take that out for a walk, looking for images and compositions.

You need to be more specific. Otherwise the following might occur:

[mikemyers]

@underexposed

You need to be more specific. Otherwise the following might occur:

Actually, the truth is I do this all the time, already, but not precisely. Whenever I’m walking around outside, part of me is constantly looking for something worth photographing, and in my mind, I’m framing it, and debating if it’s good enough to warrant a photo.

In the sketch, I appear to be young. In reality, I’m now past 80.
Life, for me, has changed, and is constantly changing still.

[mikemyers]

Someone wrote a response here, and DxO promptly mailed it to me, before he deleted it. I sent him a message that I hope he can still repost it, as it is all true, and if that bothers me, so be it.

Somethings regarding his deleted post:

• Since I bought the D3 in 2007, I never knew how to, or did, clean the sensor.
• I also never knew about firmware updates, or how to do them, so my camera has never been updated.
• He pointed out that in all these years, I only had 2400 actuations of the shutter, and since I only used the thing for R/C car racing photos, that sounds reasonable to me (it was too big and heavy for general use).
• I still often take photos with whatever settings were on the camera from last use, unless I take the time to set it up properly for each shot. I’m still guilty of this.
• Finally, if I’m in a hurry, and want to get a shot before things change, all I do is press the back button focus, zoom, and shoot. I really, REALLY, out to take my time, and act more like the way I think @Joanna does things…

I think everyone here should say exactly what they think, and if I’m doing things wrong, in their eyes, go ahead and write it. I’d rather be offended than continue to do something incorrectly.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

Only when you print, does your image convey the authority you wish it to have.

The print is your photograph’s rightful inheritance.

Charlie Waite

Why bother to print?

Walls can be pretty empty and boring without prints…

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

Walls can be pretty empty and boring without prints…

When I photographed with film, prints were the obvious end result.

In today’s world, prints are as necessary as a good fountain pen.

But I need to add, if my walls weren’t already filled with artwork and photos from a lifetime ago, I would have a very different attitude. In that case, something like this:

Digital Photo Frame

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

When I photographed with film, prints were the obvious end result.

In today’s world, prints are as necessary as a good fountain pen.

And what’s wrong with a good fountain pen?

I will repeat

The print is your photograph’s rightful inheritance

@mikemyers

In that case, something like this:

Nah. Not big enough and you only get to see one at a time.

[Wolfgang ([ Win10, PL+VP+FP, Nik7 / 3.3 ])]

@mikemyers

Not today though, and I need to first do my Pelican homework for @Wolfgang. …

Sounds promising, I’ll wait… No pressure, but it’s nice to get feedback – or even a result.

And if you experiment yourself, you won’t forget it so quickly.
As the saying goes: “Use it or lose it”.

[underexposed]

Can probably not be repeated enough

@Joanna

I will repeat

The print is your photograph’s rightful inheritance

@mikemyers I did not think you would post an amazon affiliate link - not thinking you would, I didn’t review the link before clicking. You have been learning from Ken Rockwell Is that actually your link or did you get it from someone else?

Regarding screen vs print, there’s also emissive vs reflective to consider. The gap is becoming smaller though. But even then, I’d rather get a large format printer and years worth of ink than a few displays for the same money and give away prints.

Also, a self printed postcard and handwriting with a fountain pen, doesn’t quite have the same touch as an e-mail with an embedded jpeg.

[mikemyers]

After getting my email, I set the D3 up today to check for dust on the sensor. In PhotoLab I selected whatever I could to make the “dust” as prominent as possible. “Yikes!!” would be my expression at what I saw.

Maybe I can ask here before I do anything…
Does this look like a typical dirty sensor, or is it not even fixable?
With next to no experience at cleaning sensors, should I give it a go, or take it to my local photo repair shop?
I assume I will be putting the camera back “in storage” for the most part, so anything I do here will be mostly wasted effort. The D3, or more likely my Df, will be kept around as a backup camera, but I need to get my brain wrapped around my D780 most of the time.

I did everything I could to exaggerate the dust.

[mikemyers]

@underexposed

I did not think you would post an amazon affiliate link - not thinking you would, I didn’t review the link before clicking.

I did a search for digital photo frames, and picked one. If I were to buy it would probably be from Amazon. It’s not “my” link, it came from a Google Search.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

1. If you’ve never cleaned a sensor before and you don’t have either the kit or the knowledge, don’t touch it. Take it to a repair shop.
2. Dust is the result of keeping on changing lenses. Which is why I strongly recomended the 28-300, since it means, for the most part, you will almost never take it off the camera.

When the D3 is clean, sell it and put the money, along with that from the sale of your 70-300 lens towards the 28-300

[mikemyers]

@underexposed

Regarding screen vs print, there’s also emissive vs reflective to consider. The gap is becoming smaller though. But even then, I’d rather get a large format printer and years worth of ink than a few displays for the same money and give away prints.

Sounds fun, but I don’t have the space, don’t have the $$$, and why would I want to change to mailing out anything, rather than post them on my web site (which I’ve been ignoring lately):

m

[underexposed]

@mikemyers

don’t have the $$$,

There are digital photo frames that cost a bit more than the one from the link you posted. 2-3 of those and you can get the same printer @Joanna has + extra set of inks… .

@mikemyers

@underexposed

I did not think you would post an amazon affiliate link…

…it came from a Google Search

guessed something like that.

@mikemyers

Sounds fun, but I don’t have the space,

It’s also fun to build sturdy shelves…

@mikemyers

why would I want to change

One a more serious note, if a self printed hand written post card has no added value for you compared to an e-mail with a jpg, then I don’t see why you would want to either. I also understand whether screen or print adds value to your image, is a matter of preference.

I can also imagine sitting in a candlelit room with a fireplace and prints on the walls is different from sitting in a room dimly lit by art displays.

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

If you’ve never cleaned a sensor before and you don’t have either the kit or the knowledge, don’t touch it. Take it to a repair shop.

This is what I used on my D750:
"VisibleDust Arctic Butterfly 724 (Brite)

I was never brave enough to use the wipes. I bought them long ago, but never got up the courage to use them, likely a good idea.

The Arctic Brush did got rid of almost all the dust, but this D3 has almost 20 years of dust possibly stuck to it.

Apparently my D780 does this automatically. At least that’s what I’ve read.

Read the reviews…

[underexposed]

@mikemyers

Apparently my D780 does this automatically. At least that’s what I’ve read.

[Read the reviews…]

If you don’t want to unintentionally post affiliate links or those with ad tracking, paste the URL in the box on this page first:

untrack.link - Privacy Link Redirect

Then copy the link under “Cleaned URL:” for sharing.

If you do decide to clean the D3, please share updates. Am curios what it would look like after being wiped just once and if multiple cleaning runs improve anything.