Parler aux utilisateurs / Talking to the users

DxO PhotoLab Feature requests
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[Version FR]
[EN version removed by the forum staff - Still don’t know why]
[The english translation can be found again in message 34 below]

Bonjour à tous,

Pour de nombreux utilisateurs, DxO Photolab est techniquement le meilleur outil de traitement des fichiers RAW disponible sur le marché. C’est indiscutable. Cependant, année après année, nous constatons des incohérences dans son interface utilisateur, sans percevoir pour autant de réaction adéquate de la part de DxO. Par expérience professionnelle, je sais que négliger trop longtemps cet aspect d’un logiciel peut engendrer une lassitude parmi les utilisateurs qui, finalement, préféreront parfois un logiciel peut-être moins performant mais plus cohérent dans son interface, donc plus facilement utilisable. J’ai vu par le passé des logiciels techniquement quasi parfaits disparaître brutalement du marché à cause d’une négligence caractérisée concernant les demandes des utilisateurs. La qualité fonctionnelle d’un logiciel n’est pas nécessairement le garant de son succès et de sa pérennité. On a parfois l’impression que les développeurs de Photolab ne sont pas eux-mêmes photographes et que les choix qu’ils font ne sont pas basés sur une pratique réelle du développement numérique. J’ai le sentiment que 2024 est l’année où DxO devrait se recentrer sur ce type de problème, même au prix d’une pause dans l’innovation technique. Les fonctions actuelles sont suffisantes et une maintenance attentive devrait suffire pour maintenir ce produit nettement au-dessus du lot.

Actuellement, la communication entre DxO et ses utilisateurs est limitée au programme de bêta test avec un niveau d’écoute des suggestions utilisateurs qui laisse souvent à désirer. C’est insuffisant. Il n’y a plus aucun échange, ni aucune réponse sur le forum “Requests”. Certaines demandes dont l’intérêt est évident (et je ne parle pas uniquement des miennes :slight_smile:) sont restées sans réponse depuis des années. Je pense que cette situation doit être corrigée. Je vois 2 moyens de le faire :

  1. Augmenter la participation de DxO au forum Requests, au plus près possible de l’équipe de développement. Le fait que les non anglophones soient en pratique totalement exclus des échanges devrait également être pris en compte.

  2. Il me semble que des échanges directs (je veux dire en présentiel) avec les utilisateurs devraient être envisagés. DxO Labs est basée à Boulogne-Billancourt, près de Paris. Je pense qu’il serait pertinent d’organiser une session d’une ou deux journées où des échanges directs avec l’équipe de développement seraient possibles. C’est une stratégie que Microsoft avait appliquée avec succès avec son programme MVP, certes avec de gros moyens. Mais cela peut s’envisager à plus petite échelle. Bien sûr cela exclurait les utilisateurs très éloignés de Paris mais je pense que le bénéfice qui pourrait être retiré de tels échanges aurait des conséquences positives pour tous. Pas besoin d’un grosse logistique pour mettre en place une telle session. Il ne manque pas sur ce forum d’utilisateurs actifs, non nécessairement bêta testeurs, qui ont une bonne connaissance du produit et dont les avis sont pertinents. À DxO de décider qui inviter.

Il y a longtemps que je songeais à faire cette proposition mais il me semble que c’est le moment de tenter quelque chose. Le thème de l’interface utilisateur de Photolab est devenu, à mon humble avis, un élément crucial de l’avenir du produit. Le négliger serait une erreur.

Merci de votre attention.

Patrick

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In my work as a consultant software engineer, I have had the immense pleasure of attending conferences organised by software companies who write software for us to use in writing software and by user support groups.

The best conferences are those that allow users direct access to a product’s developer team, where users can get feedback and developers can explain how things are meant to work.

Something like a two day event allows for presentation and teaching sessions by both the product’s staff and expert users, interspersed by coffee and meal breaks where attendees can interact on a more casual basis.

Though I say it myself, one of the best ideas that I introduced, first in the UK and subsequently at a US conference, was the “Problem Clinic”, where we set aside a small room, staffed by one or two expert users, where folks could come with their problems and we would attempt to answer directly or seek out someone else who we knew would have more knowledge than us. Then the enquirer would either come back or be contacted with the answer.

Yes, it meant travel and accommodation but the relationships that we built up between users and the company were worth their weight in gold for both users and, just as importantly, the company.

Might I be so bold as to suggest that some of us do the organising and invite DxO to participate? That way, we can get a great conference for ourselves and, if DxO should refuse to participate, we will definitely know which side your bread is buttered.

P.S. I only live a 3 hour TGV journey from Paris.

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PhotoLab User Conference!

Why not, I live about 3.5 tgv hours away from Paris. Will probably take another two hours through Paris due to traffic :grin:

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What about allowing users who live too far away to participate in person to join in by Zoom or similar?

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Amsterdam-Paris 3.5h by train or 5.5h by car.

George

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it is a delusion … “technically best” raw converter will not lose raw data that is not clipped in raw, DxO does… “technically best” raw converter does have provisions for using reproduction profiles - DxO does not … their demosaick is no better than the likes of ACR/LR AI/ML based one or in Iridient … AI/ML NR is no longer standing alone… and optics modules range from good indeed to cluelessness about Sony applying optics corrections to raw data - which essentially says that tales about testing each and every combo are just tales

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When I was a Microsoft .Net MVP and an independent consultant, I participated in some sessions organized by Microsoft in France and at Redmond, near Seattle. One of the key points was the ability of the product managers and development teams to patiently listen to the complaints expressed in such sessions. Severe critics were welcome (that is, until they started to ask the MVPs to become Microsoft evangelists).

Anyway, this must be a two-way exchange. Of course, I think we also have to listen to what DxO Labs have to say and explain, to what experts have learned from their experience but the main problem today is that they are not listening to us at all.

I admit that the benefit/workload ratio of some current requests is not high enough to trigger any development action but some others are clearly related to the lack of overall consistency of the product’s UI and many of them are not difficult to implement.

My proposal is meant as a signal sent to DxO reminding them that too many issues have been ignored since years and that they can’t continue doing so. I have advocated the use of Photolab for years and I’m a DxO customer since day zero (about 19 years ago when the first version of DxO Optics Pro was released). Now I see something that could put the Photolab future at risk and I think that they need to react.

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OK. It’s a matter of opinion and user experience. Let’s express this another way :

“For many users, DxO Photolab is technically the best RAW processor available on the market.”

I suggest that we do not start a discussion about this. What we want is to make the product better. That’s the purpose of this proposal.

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About 2 hours from Paris when not in Paris.
0 mn when in Paris.

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Une telle pause serait bienvenue si elle est aussi accompagnée d’une recherche d’optimisation afin de rendre PL plus réactif.
Que DP et DPXD necessitent leur temps de processing est comprehensible.
Mais il semble quand meme qu’a de nombreux niveaux la puissance des stations actuelles est soit gaspillée soit non utilisée.
Et que des petits détails comme action quand le bouton de la souris est relaché plutot que quand il est appuyé augmentent cette sensation de lenteur et de non réactivité du logiciel.

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@Pat91 So we have complaints in the forum that some users are “shouting” down others and now you want to provide an actual opportunity for those users to really shout down the rest.

Given the number of users who might turn up it is a ridiculous idea, and yes the company I worked for had annual “Large Systems” and “NAP” (the telephony interface) gatherings in Europe and I accompanied my customer to meetings at the development Plant in the US. But these were customers paying millions and as such, limited in number.

Just restore the participation of a DxO representative to the forum and then improve that interaction to provide access to other developers on a routine basis rather than “invite” them all to a “bun fight”.

Yes DxPL seems to be getting progressively less responsive at every release but we have a forum, if you believe that airing your concerns personally will somehow change DxO’s mind you have a far greater confidence in the powers of face to face persuasion than I do, particularly with the number of users that might be involved.

Every time you find something not the way you feel it should be write a post and submit a support request.

PS:- The only thing stopping development engineers posting in the forum is DxO, their blind obstinance may well lead to the downfall of the company but (sadly) I don’t feel that a face to face meeting is going to change that!

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There’s no point in trying.

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I’m not sure you’re doing the right conclusion.
For my part, I found the contributions of Pat, a PL beta tester and former software engineer, to be a morale booster when it comes to the possibility of seeing the DxO team react and at least clarify what their policy is for the future.
I’m totally convinced that this new reality of reacting to the web world is one of the worst distortions of democracy (Europe didn’t instigate this), but since the world now works like that, we have to force ourselves to do it.
And I really think that PL users (like me) really need to understand what direction PL is going to take.
And I don’t think that PL users have the idea of shout down the rest.
On the contrary, this will help them to understand DxO’s medium and long-term vision, and to calm down expectations about details that can slow down a real groundwork.
Anyway, thanks to you (@BHAYT ), @Pat91 , @Joanna , @noname , @mwsilvers , @MSmithy, @platypus and all other I forget just now for your contribution to this forum.

Yes DxO should thank you too.

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@JoPoV Thank you for your approbation but a physical meeting is actually a limiting thing, limited to those that can attend, can afford the time and money to attend and are not “barred” from attending by age, infirmity, cost etc…

ACDSee put on “show and tell” video “conferences” just before a every new release and the likes of “Tim Shields” also show how it can be done as he sells his training courses, or are they brain-washing sessions!?

But the first big hurdle is to actually get DxO to be even vaguely open about their upcoming Beta release let alone their long-term goals!

I don’t see that a face to face meeting will in any way change that until we have a sea change (sorry a fundamental shift) in DxO’s general attitude which has been going backwards over this last year +.

The only time we “see” a DxO engineer is during Beta testing with some additional appearances in the normal forum, but far less than was the case prior to that and many of us lamented that the contact was poor then, little did we know what was in store.

Instead of DxO using its forum and forum members to its own advantage it seems to deliberately turns its back on the users and plough its own furrow (sorry follow its own path) regardless .

When the first EA arrives it is already too late and while some changes are possible others simply are not and users can be stuck with some truly dumb moves for which no explanation is given because it is DxO’s product after all, not ours!

We have a much bigger hill to climb than getting a face to face meeting!

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I think I’ve to agree with @BHAYT .
But it would be a good reason for a long weekend in Paris. :grinning:

George

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@George My last memory of Paris was being driven to a customer meeting with France Telecom, after they bought Orange (now part of EE) across the giant roundabout, almost as much “fun” as a fairground ride!!!

Until DxO decides to use its forum instead of (appearing to) actively shun it, we have a giant mountain to climb and I am getting too old to climb mountains!

Regards

Bryan

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Before this new forum layout it was called feedback.dxo.com, now it’s called forum.dxo.com.
That might tell us about the way they’re moving.

George

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Hold on folks!

I think of a conference, not as a means of confronting and beating up DxO but, primarily, of meeting other users and sharing knowledge and techniques with each other - with the additional pleasure of gathering around the table in a good restaurant for the evening.

It would also allow us to consolidate any concerns we might have without having to make them public until we have discussed them amongst ourselves.

Now, if DxO would deign to attend and to participate, all the better. There would, of course, be a pubic “press release” on how the conference went and any resulting reaction from attendees as to the success or otherwise of the get together.

Do you see where I am going with this approach?

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Bonjour,

C’est mon tout premier message sur ce forum et je ne sais pas s’il existe une rubrique présentation…

J’utilise DXO depuis Optics Pro 9 et j’en suis resté à Photolab 5, FilmPack 6 et ViewPoint 3 (je suis sous Windows).

Photolab correspond à ma façon de travailler et j’aime particulièrement la qualité du rendu final, même si tout n’est pas parfait, loin de là. C’est pour cette raison que le sujet évoqué par Pat91 m’a donné envie de contribuer ici.

Depuis des années, il y a beaucoup de choses qui sont restées sans évolution alors que ça existe chez la concurrence. Voici une liste de ce que j’aimerais voir ajouté ou amélioré :

  • Une option balance des blancs automatique. Ce n’est pas grand-chose, mais ça sauverait énormément de photos. Je pratique essentiellement la photo animalière en sous-bois, et en cas de balance des blancs erronée, la pipette est rarement efficace dans ces conditions. Cette option existe dans d’autres logiciels et je ne vois pas pourquoi DXO n’arriverait pas à l’implémenter.

  • Un outil courbe plus évolué avec, pourquoi pas, des formes de courbes prédéfinies

  • Des curseurs de tonalité sélectives qui fonctionnent enfin sur les bonnes plages tonales. C’est un soucis connu et reconnu et il s’avère que dans les faits, l’usage en est problématique.

  • Un historique qui soit conservé à la fermeture.

  • Un outil Panorama ainsi que la fusion HDR ferait le bonheur des paysagistes.

Je suis d’accord sur le fait que l’interface demanderait un petit coup de rafraichissement.
Personnellement la disposition par onglets me convient parfaitement, mais je trouve la police utilisée trop grosse. Ca manque de finesse et ça prend beaucoup de place.
Par ailleurs, le logiciel manque de réactivité, même sur de grosses configurations.

Comme je le disais plus haut, j’en suis resté à la version 5, car la 6 ne répondait pas à mes attentes, et la 7 encore moins. Et je ne parle pas des mesquineries tarifaires (masque de luminosité dans FP7, par exemple).

Je pense que l’équipe DXO doit ouvrir les yeux et écouter ses utilisateurs.
Comme Pat91, je travaille dans l’informatique (administration système / réseau) et je peux vous assurer qu’un logiciel manquant d’ergonomie est vite délaissé.

Cette idée de rencontre, physiquement et/ou via visio est une excellente idée et permettrait, à mon sens, à l’équipe de DXO d’évoluer sans rester figer sur ses acquis.

La concurrence progresse vite et se remet en question. Si DXO veut continuer à vendre et proposer de nouvelles choses, elle n’a pas le choix, elle doit être à l’écoute.

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Why not try a zoom conference as a start? Inviting CaptainPO and Musashi could possibly help DxO to participate.

We’d need a) an agenda, b) a few rules of behaviour plus c) a moderator.

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