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Problem solved, they sent me a code via email.
Can anyone comment on how useful the promoted Fstoppers tutorials are for someone like me who doesn’t use Adobe or Affinity software (which call the Nik apps as plugins) but instead uses PhotoLab primarily?
Thanks!
I downloaded the tutorials and had a first look at the one about PureRaw.
Found it to be well structured and presented, spoken clearly and slowly enough for a non-native observer to follow what’s being said. I did not like the subtitles though and downloaded the English version instead.
My interest in such material is less with the technical aspects of the tools, but in how people use different tools for similar effects…and one can always learn a thing or two 
G’day Greg - I don’t have the Fstoppers tuts either - - but I wouldn’t reckon they’d spend much time on the interface between the Nik tools and “host” apps, as that’s not a significant part of the process of using them (the Nik tools) … it’s just the means of passing image-files from one app to the other.
In my own use of the Nik tools (via PL), I handle the interface “manually”, rather than via PL’s “Plug-in Selector” (because the latter does not allow the output location to be specified - and I don’t like the interface file being created in same folder as the RAW) … and, for the Nik tools that allow this feature, I save the Nik equivalent of a ~.dop file (effectively an XML file, in .json format) - so that I can come back later, if I need/wish, to revisit my Nik treatments.
John
Well, I’m finally giving Nik Collection 6.4 the 30-day trial with PL7.0.2 and its add-ons. It’s an adventure, as the problems I mentioned in August having to do with color management and associated metadata have never been addressed by DxO over the past three years, either here or in tech support, despite my persistence. I’m finding that they still exist! PL exports to TIFF for the Nik Collection using certain default settings that I believe are the same as I use for final export to TIFF, but for some reason aren’t working for sRGB output when the destination is a Nik app. The resulting image is much darker in external viewers than what I see in the DxO software at all stages. The problem seems to originate in the Nik Collection rather than in PhotoLab and isn’t usually discovered until final export, after all my work is done. I’ve seen it almost always from HDR Efex Pro, even after the rewrite in 6.3, and in other apps when the final destination is Flickr. Reporting these issues to DxO has repeatedly yielded nothing except “try the latest version” after long periods of silence. Complaining about it has resulted in broken promises from the POs and lots more silence. So I’m done. Unless someone on the team is finally willing to work with me. @Barbara-S ??
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i can’t tell exporting from PL to Nik as i never done it this way, i just export as .tiff file when i’m done with PL then open it with AP and use Nik as plugin within AP, colours always stayed the same so it seem to me it’s PL export to Nik that cause a colour issue.
if you are to use Nik in another software for further retouching or what ever reason, why would you export to Nik from PL without seeing the outcome of your .tiff file out of PL before opening in Nik. if i export to my desktop from PL and open the file in Nik, they both look alike no colour change, either sRGB or Adobe RGB, maybe if you use P3 or ProPhoto RGB as export from PL could cause this change, i haven’t tried it as i don’t work with those two colour profile. i know old version of Nik (DxO Nik v2 and older) were only compatible with sRGB and Adobe RGB.
You’re missing the differences. AP uses Nik as a plugin: when you call Nik from AP, does AP export to TIFF for HDR Efex Pro or Color Efex Pro to load? That’s what PL does. The parameters for the TIFF file can supposedly be configured for “export to application” in PL, and that works fine for regular TIFF exports. But something goes wrong when Nik manages the TIFF. You can’t see the problem in PL or in Nik until Nik has done its work and saved it. Sometimes the problem is only visible in another app such as IrfanView or Flickr or a web browser. I presented two test cases to DxO: one in which the problem was visible in PL after Nik worked on the file. Another which was seen only in Flickr, unless the EXIF info was stripped. DxO didn’t work on either submission.
Thinking more about this, I wonder if DxO has outsourced development of the Nik Collection.
@Egregius – to complement ( with PL7.02 Build83 and Nik6.4 ) …
I exported the very same raw-file ( nef / camera was set to AdobeRGB ) as TIFF
- to disk
- to the Nik Collection
.
Export to disk → Same as Soft Proofing or sRGB, P3, ARGB, Rec, DxOWG, ProPhoto
Softproof settings [ DxO Wide Gamut not listed ! ]
.
Export to Nik Collection → Same as Soft Proofing or sRGB, P3, ARGB, Rec, DxOWG, ProPhoto
-
Export to disk
The exported files always corresponded to the chosen target profiles. -
Export to Nik Collection
The exported file only corresponded to the sRGB target,
while all others were limited to AdobeRGB.
Then I repeated the same test with original *.tif files (AdobeRGB and ProPhoto color space).
In all cases the exported files corresponded to the chosen target profiles,
changing the color space accordingly to smaller or wider gamut !
[ While at first I had thought, that the Nik Collection was limited to handle sRGB and AdobeRGB color space only – and the other export options just a mistake, ‘exporting’ *.tif files ( → using the “Nik Collection” button ) proved that wrong. ]
… which means, when exporting a RAW-file from PL to Nik as TIFF
(and I tried Nik tools affecting color as well the ‘neutral’ Output Sharpener)
we get some misleading results !
( ed )
I’ve confirmed the behavior is as follows:
In my tests with Nik Collection 3, 4, and 6, the TIFF file initially created by PL from a RAW image and sent to HDR Efex Pro (using the “Nik Collection” button) seems to display just fine both in PhotoLab and in other applications. In the EXIF, color space = sRGB.
When HDR Efex Pro saves adjustments to the TIFF, things go badly. The modified TIFF displays just fine in PhotoLab, but not in, say, IrfanView. In the EXIF, color space is now Uncalibrated (-1). (If I strip the EXIF, the image will most likely display correctly as sRGB. That was the case in one of my previous tests.) I can find no settings in HDR Efex Pro to change this behavior.
That’s bad enough. But there’s more. As I said, this TIFF image displays correctly in PhotoLab on my sRGB monitor. If I then use PL to export it to a new TIFF with ICC profile “as shot”, the result is no different. If I use ICC profile “same as soft proofing” (sRGB) instead, the result is the same (bad) when the Soft Proofing palette is set to sRGB but turned off: the new TIFF still has color space=Uncalibrated in the EXIF and the colors are too dark. Soft Proofing has to be turned on for this to work. If I export with ICC profile = sRGB, I get the correct image and EXIF in the new TIFF. So this extra step seems necessary to get the desired result despite no visual feedback in my workflow.
This is all easily reproduced. What do you think? A real problem, or am I missing something?
Have you checked if the profile is embedded or if the apps just say it’s sRGB because there is no profile?
What happens when you run the test with, say, AdobeRGB?
I tried “Export to application” from PL using AdobeRGB 1998 as the ICC profile. No difference in behavior.
These are the EXIF tags that I see returned from HDR Efex using my normal workflow. (EXIF data viewed using IrfanView.) I’ve tried with compression (LZW) and without compression - that doesn’t matter, fortunately. The two InterColorProfile tags intrigue me as does Color Space being set to an uncalibrated (undefined non-sRGB) state. But I have no control over these - they come from the Nik Collection, not from PhotoLab or the camera. PhotometricInterpretation=2 means RGB.
Filename - 3A213122_Nik-1.tif
ImageWidth - 5244
ImageLength - 2947
BitsPerSample - 16 16 16
Compression - 5 (LZW)
PhotometricInterpretation - 2
Make - OLYMPUS CORPORATION
Model - E-M1MarkIII
StripOffset - 110019843
SamplesPerPixel - 3
RowsPerStrip - 3
StripByteCount - 110023775
XResolution - 72.00
YResolution - 72.00
PlanarConfiguration - 1
ResolutionUnit - Inch
Software - HDREfex
DateTime - 2023:11:01 22:28:00
Artist - Gregory Vozzo
Rating - 0
RatingPercent - 0
Copyright - Gregory Vozzo
ExifOffset - 110031589
InterColorProfile - 110265663
ExposureTime - 1/1000 seconds
FNumber - 3.50
ExposureProgram - Aperture priority
ISOSpeedRatings - 200
ExifVersion - 0231
DateTimeOriginal - 2022:10:21 02:13:09
DateTimeDigitized - 2022:10:21 02:13:09
OffsetTime - -04:00
OffsetTimeOriginal - -05:00
OffsetTimeDigitized - -05:00
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
MaxApertureValue - F 3.50
SubjectDistance - 128.00 m
MeteringMode - Multi-segment
LightSource - Auto
Flash - Flash not fired, compulsory flash mode
FocalLength - 12 mm
UserComment -
FlashPixVersion - 0100
ColorSpace - Uncalibrated/Unknown (-1)
ExifImageWidth - 5244
ExifImageHeight - 2947
FileSource - DSC - Digital still camera
CustomRendered - Normal process
ExposureMode - Auto
White Balance - Auto
DigitalZoomRatio - 1.00 x
SceneCaptureType - Standard
GainControl - None
Contrast - Normal
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Normal
Lens Info - 12 60 3.50 5.60
Lens Model - LUMIX G VARIO 12-60/F3.5-5.6
GPS information: -
GPSVersionID - 2.3.0.0
Maker Note (Vendor): -
Mode - Normal
CameraID - OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA
LensSerialNumber - 18LX5051410B
LensModel - LUMIX G VARIO 12-60/F3.5-5.6
LensFirmwareVersion - 1200
MaxApertureAtMinFocal - 4.2
MaxApertureAtMaxFocal - 5.0
MinFocalLength - 12
MaxFocalLength - 60
MaxApertureAtCurrentFocal - 3.7
LensProperties - 0xC140
Thumbnail: -
ImageWidth - 5244
ImageLength - 2947
BitsPerSample - 8 8 8
Compression - 1 (None)
PhotometricInterpretation - 2
StripOffset - 156629085
SamplesPerPixel - 3
RowsPerStrip - 6
StripByteCount - 156631053
PlanarConfiguration - 1
InterColorProfile - 156633027
I tried export to application again, unchecking EXIF and attributes in the export options. The TIFF file created and sent to HDR Efex has the Color Space and InterColorProfile tags:
Filename - 3A213122_DxO_2.tif
ImageWidth - 5244
ImageLength - 2947
BitsPerSample - 16 16 16
Compression - 1 (None)
PhotometricInterpretation - 2
StripOffset - 92724700
Orientation - Top left
SamplesPerPixel - 3
RowsPerStrip - 3
StripByteCount - 92728632
XResolution - 72.00
YResolution - 72.00
PlanarConfiguration - 1
ResolutionUnit - Inch
Software - DxO PhotoLab 7.0.2
DateTime - 2023:11:02 10:23:26
Artist - Gregory Vozzo
Copyright - Gregory Vozzo
ExifOffset - 92736238
InterColorProfile - 92736300
OffsetTime - -04:00
ColorSpace - Uncalibrated/Unknown (-1)
ExifImageWidth - 5244
ExifImageHeight - 2947
Thumbnail: -
ImageWidth - 163
ImageLength - 92
BitsPerSample - 8 8 8
Compression - 1 (None)
PhotometricInterpretation - 2
StripOffset - 92736868
SamplesPerPixel - 3
RowsPerStrip - 209
StripByteCount - 44988
PlanarConfiguration - 1
InterColorProfile - 92782018
But it displays just fine in IrfanView. After applying edits in HDR Efex, the image displays incorrectly (much too dark and not saturated enough) in IrfanView. EXIF:
Filename - 3A213122_DxO_2.tif
ImageWidth - 5244
ImageLength - 2947
BitsPerSample - 16 16 16
Compression - 5 (LZW)
PhotometricInterpretation - 2
StripOffset - 114995526
SamplesPerPixel - 3
RowsPerStrip - 3
StripByteCount - 114999458
XResolution - 72.00
YResolution - 72.00
PlanarConfiguration - 1
ResolutionUnit - Inch
Software - HDREfex
DateTime - 2023:11:02 10:28:36
Artist - Gregory Vozzo
Copyright - Gregory Vozzo
ExifOffset - 115006938
InterColorProfile - 115007000
OffsetTime - -04:00
ColorSpace - Uncalibrated/Unknown (-1)
ExifImageWidth - 5244
ExifImageHeight - 2947
Thumbnail: -
ImageWidth - 5244
ImageLength - 2947
BitsPerSample - 8 8 8
Compression - 1 (None)
PhotometricInterpretation - 2
StripOffset - 161370404
SamplesPerPixel - 3
RowsPerStrip - 6
StripByteCount - 161372372
PlanarConfiguration - 1
InterColorProfile - 161374346
Still no word from DxO about giving tech support.
In addition to my test above …
I exported another RAW-file (nef / camera was set to AdobeRGB / with colors really on the edge)
now to Nik HDR (export options set to 16 bit TIFF, ProPhoto)
and resulting in …
IFD0
Software = DxO Correction Engine
XMP-xmp
Creator Tool = DxO Correction Engine
ExifIFD
ColorSpace = Uncalibrated
Nikon
ColorSpace = AdobeRGB
ICC Profile & ICC Profile2
ProfileDescription = RGB bult-in
This new HDR.tif, with Export to disk (export options set to 16 bit TIFF, ProPhoto)
resulted in …
IFD0
Software = DxO PhotoLab 7.0.2
XMP-xmp
Creator Tool = DxO PhotoLab 7.0.2
ExifIFD
ColorSpace = Uncalibrated
Nikon
ColorSpace = AdobeRGB
ICC Profile & ICC Profile2
ProfileDescription = ROMM RGB; ISO 22028-2;2013
Visually comparing the files in PL7, FRV and IrfanView there was very little difference
(monitor set to Native, 6500K = similar to AdobeRGB and P3 combined).
Out of curiosity, I tried the same thing but exported to Nik HDR as 16 bit / sRGB …
IFD0
Software = DxO Correction Engine
XMP-xmp
Creator Tool = DxO Correction Engine
ExifIFD
ColorSpace = Uncalibrated
Nikon
ColorSpace = sRGB
ICC Profile & ICC Profile2
ProfileDescription = RGB bult-in
and then after exported that resulting HDR.tif again with Export to disk as 16bit / sRGB …
IFD0
Software = DxO PhotoLab 7.0.2
XMP-xmp
Creator Tool = DxO PhotoLab 7.0.2
ExifIFD
ColorSpace = sRGB
Nikon
ColorSpace = sRGB
Visually comparing the files in PL7, FRV and IrfanView, there was no crazy difference,
while the sRGB versions showed lesser saturation and such … (monitor set to sRGB, 6500 K).
.
( A ) FastRawViewer w/ monitor set to sRGB, 6500 K
the color managed preview doesn’t change much
(thumbnails look different)
- Nik HDR → ProPhoto
-
Export to disk → ProPhoto
. - Nik HDR → sRGB
- Export to disk → sRGB
.
( B ) FastStone Image Viewer w/ monitor set to sRGB, 6500 K
showing the color managed 4x preview
(thumbnails look different)
@DxO_Support-Team – please have a look for the topic
i haven’t tried HDR Efex and i never exported images from PL with soft proofing but only “as shot”.
i’ll have to try that soft proofing thing if it makes a difference, even though i never print from PL, now that you mention that, i’m getting curious!
That’s interesting conjecture, Greg … It would explain the difference in the user-interface for Nik versus PL (the NIK UI being very hard to see/read !)
There’s a little “gotcha” in that practice, Mike … If you happened to have captured the image with your camera set to Adobe RGB - then you may not be getting the exported result that you’re expecting.
always been set to sRGB if i/when i shoot jpeg. on the export dialogue there’s also “preserve color details”.
i’ve never sent for prints or save as jpeg from PL. i do my soft proofing and save as jpeg in AP when i’m done.
This doesn’t matter at all for RAW files.
Yes, not in terms of the RAW file itself, Greg … But, it does matter if you have camera set to Adobe RGB and you Export To Disk with the option “As Shot” - 'cos then you’ll be getting an image exported with the Adobe RGB color-space … which may not be what you’re expecting.