Thinking about adding a monochrome camera. Maybe Leica Q2M…or hopefully in future a Leica Q3M. I know Capture One supports, but I very much prefer DXO PL (been using that for years). Option is ofcourse to use tiff. files, but I would like to see full support for Monochrome raw files.
Yes, I know noise reduction presumably needs colour information and that this might be a reason for not supporting Leica Monochrom raw files.
Still, I would like to have this support…advanced noise reduction or not.
Has been asked before here.
At the moment I use my Sigma DP3M for monochrome only….very nice results, but unfortunately no DXO PL support either (using tiffs. instead).
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Edit…could shooting in raw DNG solve this? I mean, I cannot use full noise reduction on tiffs. Would DNG files from a monochrome camera like Pentax or Leica work?
Work in that I then can use all noise reduction settings?
The answer is in the FAQ:
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Thank you platypus. I obviously was too fast in asking this. Should have read this before.
Not in the list of supported cameras and:
“…DxO PhotoLab also supports DNG format if the original RAW format is supported, BUT only as long as they have been generated by Adobe Lightroom or Adobe DNG Converter (RAW DNG) without any further corrections (RAW-DNG) and without compression……”
Doesn’t look like it’s supported. Too bad.
DNG looks like a universally usable format, but DxO implements its own restrictions. They make it easier for DxO to provide best of breed processing at the expense of user’s ability to process images for which they can accept a somewhat lower technical excellence.
Let’s not forget that images live by content rather than technical perfection.
Does the Leica monochrome have a Bayer array? I don’t think so.
George
I applaud the best of breed support from DXO., and I also understand that Monochrome camera users are a really small group of photographers. Still, I wouldn’t mind support from DXO for such cameras. Capture One seems to support these (DNG Native), and in support, DXO still could be the “best of breed” (albeit not as good or complete as their support for “regular “ cameras). It could then be the best of monochrome supporting software breed.
We have the Leicas Monochrom, Pentax Monochrome, and rumors about a Ricoh GR monochrome.
CFA is removed/ not present. Same with “all” monochrome cameras.
So no demosaicing process. The hart of a raw converter like PL
George
Like I said in my first post:
“…noise reduction presumably needs colour information and this might be a reason for not supporting Leica Monochrome raw files…”
The question remains, could raw files from monochrome cameras be supported, without DXO’s perfect noise reduction? Probably not.
I don’t know in what way Capture One supports Leica Monochrom files (DNG Native it seems), and if it’s possible to use noise reduction there.
That could be but I don’t believe that color info sec is important for the denoising process. But that’s just a guess. More important I think is that the normal demosaicing process can’t be used for monochrome raw files. So a complete new routine has to be created to run parallel and maintained. For how many people?
George
Could very well be. As I said…a very small group of people. Wonder how Capture One works on these files.
And ofcourse I’ll stay with DXO PL anyway…far too precious for all colour files.
Probably yes. Sounds like the key question, also for some other file formats. My guess is that DxO uses a modified libraw library to read/decode the metadata and the raw image (but NOT demosaick), at least for some cameras (look at license files). Libraw currently supports Leica Q2 monochrome, but DxO doesn’t (afaik). Note that DxO DeepPRIME works only for standard Bayer and (partially) for X-Trans CFAs, not monos, so you may see now some business reason why DxO has choosen not to support raw mono. I’m not sure about chromatic corrections or lens sharpness optimizations for mono sensors, but on the other hand geometric corrections would add some DxO value. Whether this DxO decission was “right” is up to them to figure out. Maybe we are all too naive to discuss it.
Poorly. I’m also a C1 user for certain low ISO raws or high ISO rgb tiffs exported from PhotoLab. Capture One is focused on low ISO photography and it implements only “classic” denoising, so it works on noisy photos quite poorly. I don’t think it does any better than RawTherapee or Darktable freeware in that respect. C1 has its strong points elsewhere, like face retouching.
Monochrome sensors have better quantum efficiency and hence lower photon noise on photosite input, so they have an advantage in higher ISO, shorter shutter times, not to mention sentimental or style points. However, good denoising algorithms were researched mostly for Bayer CFA, so higher ISO efficiency for mono takes a hit here, not mentioned by “mono-marketing”. Probably there are better solutions for military, surveillance, or medical use, but they wouldn’t be practical for standard photography, e.g. because of processing time (which is a key factor for software like PL, C1, LR, Topaz, etc.). Does anyone know how well do the new LR or Topaz denoising algorithms deal with monochrome sensors?
Note that most of denoising research was done for sensors with Bayer filter array (CFA), including that made by Jean-Michel Morel and his students, some of which work(ed) for DxO.
Good point. Big companies can afford making claims that sound good for many, most importantly software reviewers, but are then used in practice only by a few. DxO is not big enough for that. If it’s not useful for you, then just don’t use it. What is worrying, is that small companies seem to have financial problems due to diminishing incomes – few young people care about classic photo editing. Or am I wrong?
Hopefully DxO gets some money from other sources, like royalties from smartphone or medical equipment makers (?).
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Thank you Wlodek. Very informative. You say " Probably yes" on the ability of DXO to support Monochrome files. Any experiences here?
I meant “theoretically yes”, but DxO’s choice currently is “NOT”, for whatever reasons I don’t want to speculate about. Maybe they care about the quality too much. It applies also to many much more widely used file formats. Personally I don’t have any problems with DxO raw support, just watching the trends…
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Maybe your request should sound something like (sorry for my English, it’s not terse enough):
“Provide support for all technically readable files, even if processing is not the best possible”.
This is partially satisfied, e.g. for jpegs, rgb tiffs. Some versions of this request fly around here…
I’ve been following this thread and searching for all sorts of information on this topic, even though Leica and the like aren’t “my thing.” 
On the subject of noise (or rather, the lack of noise reduction), this video might be of interest to you.
Thank you Wlodek. That could indeed be a more appropriate title. I do value the quality that DXO wants and strives for. But, as I said before, there are not so many software developers that support files from monochrome cameras (be it Leica or Pentax…maybe / hopefully in near future also Ricoh GR). DXO could be “the best” within this small group of developers, while still not as high quality as their regular software. In no way do I wish for less quality in their regular software.
Thank you Wolfgang. I know shadow/ dark area recovery and high iso images are much “better” in black and white with a monochrome camera.
I read a story of someone shooting the Pentax Monochrome way above iso 100.000 (!). Incredible.
At the same time, I know DXO noise reduction can do a lot as well (I tried that on converted to b/w high iso files of my camera), but not as good as the files of a true monochrome camera natively.
Especially in low light, those monochrome cameras can do wonders.