Capture One have also got AI masking now.
Photolab have not and it will probably take at least another year before that arrives in Photolab
Capture One have also got AI masking now.
well… there’s auto mask even though you don’t see what it actually mask. no AI with PL, there’s still stuff missing in PL7 that need to be done before bringing AI into it.
Here are two feature request topics that discuss this, to which everyone can add votes and comments:
This is all about productivity. Fine tuning masks can be extremely time consuming. The less of that we have to do the better for the photographers pruductivity.
I have downloaded the new version and played with the new AI masking tools a bit and I already love it and decided I will upgrade since this absolutely is a substantial improvement. I think it feels very easy and efficient to work with and I appreciate the smart integration with the “Refine Mask” and Luminous Mask" -tools.
Maybe it would be a good thing to get a general efficient “Refine Mask” tool even in Photolab, From what recently have seen itcseems to lack a tool like that even in Lightroom. It has the potential to speed up some masking related work substantially.
I have waited since DxO Optics Pro 8 for a customisable grid and on-canvas curve editing. AI being ‘the thing’ just now, I doubt you’ll also be waiting for 11 years.
Each time I open Photolab, I hope that there’ll be an update that will incorporate feature requests and fixes to bugs reported on this forum. The latest being user’s problems regarding the new local adjustments arrangement. As I too share those recent problems, I fear that DxO will ride it out until users are moaning about something else.
As DxO are reluctant to list all bug fixes.addressed in any update that eventually surfaces, it can be hard to answer (other than through exploring the software): “has my/our request been answered?”.
Good luck with your wish for AI masking. If it works reliably, I imagine it would be most useful.
no AI are perfect and you still have to do retouching to fix them, look at the claw bottom right for example and some feathers. many software come out now with “yay we have AI now integrated” but when you look close for detail work… keep working, corners of square block aren’t round in real life. i’ve checked a few software and i’m sticking with what i work with for now, sorry.
side note, i wish Capture One could work without their cataloging system, can’t open images without putting it into a catalog.
Sure but there is a good refinenent tool too that helps and smart and efficient deselect possibilities too. Often furher refinements can be achived with just a few cummulative clics.
This is really a good step forward and a good addition to the toolbox in CO. Together with the smart style brushes and the possibilities to customize and save your own tools they have built a very productive platform.
I like to have some better options when more complex editing in Photolab feels too inefficient and cumbersome. It doesn’t cost anything to try.
The problems with masking in PL have nothing to do with AI in my view, even if I really like new fancy tech stuff and would love AI masking.
My issue with masking in PL is that I cannot manage to make exact masks off head shots, hair, fur etc. and have to go to my bit map editor, Affinity Photo in my case, to make a good refined mask.
The selection of that bird can probably be done better within 1-2 minutes manually. As long as you have to check and fix the AI mask most of the time savings will probably be wasted.
The same will happen with the AI-supported masking tools in CO as already gave happened with Deep Prime and its development from Deep Prime in version 4 to Deep Prime XD in version 7 or what has happened with Topaz. It will rapidly get better and better. Soon it will be good enough to fulfill even pretty high expectations if it already isn’t.
I have used CO some years now for more complicated layers and masks and Magic Brush and Magic Erase have been around for some years already. This new step is very natural but it is not just about AI. The main difference between CO and Photolab is that CO since quite a few generations is all about layers - even the image itself is a layer. There is a lot of tools in CO that they have had some time to polish for generations. There are far better dedicated tools for retouch and a flexible system to create your own in CO. Almost all that is lacking in Photolab or is in a very archaic and dysfunctional state in version 7.
In fact i doubt what they just delivered in version 7 have been properly testet before shipping.
AI will get better and better very quickly but it is already good enough in some software like Photoshop and Lightroom even if it gets even better with a lttle help here and there for the moment. Adobe seems to lead the pack now but CO is really close or better in some respects already and the competition will take care of the most obvious flaws in no time.
Remember Adobes AI implementations are just 1.x or 2.x and CO in version say 0.9. In Photolab they couldn’t even implement a new interface to the very old local adjustment system without surprisingly causing a few pretty severe short comings. I must say I’m both surprised and a little worried for DXO and their future.
Even PureRAW is in for trouble since no one will really need it anymore after the facelift of Lighroom.
Masking doesn’t have to be perfect as long as you are not cutting out a selection for compositing or raising Exposure by 3 stops etc. For the kind of adjustments that you tend to make, small adjustments in exposure, contrast, clarity etc missing a few feathers or part of a claw are usually not significant, I also feel that cleaning up an AI mask is far quicker than a manual masking which still has to include clean up of your manual mask.
Have you tried sessions in C1?
I have a work flow, FastRawViewer, Iridient S Transformer, Affinity Photo and Mirage Print made up of non subscription products that don’t have new versions coming out every year. Obviously I’m not keen on the subscription or the pseudo subscription business models. (I do pay for Topaz Photo AI every year but they are innovative and I get weekly upgrades.) I have PL as its easier if I have a lot of “good” quality images to process. I really see PL at the level of a non subscription product, like Affinity Photo. Can’t see them competing with Capture One. And as has been pointed out by others, Lightroom/Photoshop is cheaper.
Actually, there are a lot of work where a layered approach is far from optimal. The way you can select areas in PL with Control Lines and Control Points is faster and superior in many cases. Think of sky behind a tree as one such case… So, I for one don’t want a total rework of PL, but could do with a way to do finer selections of objects, especially those with hair or fur…
… and also ‘drawing’ straight lines to mask & erase.
e.g. click > move pointer > Shift click = straight line between. Definitely.
I have updated the list of expected AI-based features.
Perhaps one of them will be implemented in PhotoLab 8?
Even if C1 only matches LR that would be excellent performance. I wish DXO would look and learn from C1 on how to design a layers UI. They have most of the elements in place but can’t seem to integrate it as well, mask feathering, refinement, a filled mask, mask editing, showing mask in real time etc.
A sky behind a tree is no match for AI either in Lightroom or CO. It’s a poor exampel. CO is capabel of solving much more complicated case than that.
There are examples out there where CO even seem to be better at refining and cleaning up complicated masks. Tools LR seem to lack or beeing a bit inferior.