I suggest a raw file.
If you come short in Darktable relative to PhotoLab, then - if it has your interest - let me know which part you achieve better in PL. I might be able to offer some guidance.
Another nice close up of the colored bird.
Aha! Mystery solved, thanks to @Joanna. When I went to the Everglades, I started shooting in ‘jpg’, but starting with image _DSC0447 I switched to RAW. I don’t remember what my editor was back then, probably Lightroom. Anyway, THAT is why my PL6 will open the first half of my images (which were jpg) but nothing after I switched to RAW.
Everything just clicked into place, and now I understand what happened now that I want to re-open those images in PhotoLab. Worked fine up to a point - which I now see is when I switched to RAW.
If it was any more obvious, it would have bit me. All my questions are now resolved.
I knew nothing of the D2h having a “totally non-standard and unique JFET-LBCAST sensor” until now, but that puts the nails on the coffin. Even if I renamed the file to a different camera brand, as I did with my old Leica, maybe nothing would have come of it. Bottom line, if I want to edit my old images from my D2h, I need to use Lightroom again (ain’t gonna happen) or DarkTable.
Why bother with all that, if DarkTable opens them normally? Adobe also used to open my images, but I very much do NOT want to go back to using Lightroom.
Thank you for your offer. The difference between PhotoLab and DarkTable for me, is I now understand the tools (mostly) in PhotoLab, but I’m still learning how to get DarkTable to do what I want it to do. Between all the help in this forum, and what’s online, I may be no expert, but I can manipulate images in PhotoLab until I am happy. DarkTable is still a struggle, as I don’t understand it well enough. I click something, and most of my images vanish - then I need to back-track and make things like the were.
Back in 2005 and 6, I was often using “pirated” copies of Lightroom and PhotoShop, as was everyone I knew. I never could afford PhotoShop, but once I got use to it, I started buying my own Lightroom apps.
@Eigil_Skovgaard , I will try to find a much more challenging image from my trip, and if it’s a raw file, I’ll edit it in DarkTable, then post. As I usually do, I’ll post the original file and my .dop file. Maybe, over time, PhotoLab will offer a way to open files from unsupported cameras. I’m not going to hold my breath.
I wonder what Joanna would do, if she ever got a digital back for her LF camera that satisfied her requirements. How would she open them in PhotoLab? Hmmm…
Now that I have somewhat of an idea of what I’m doing. Not sure if the vignette belongs or not, but the sky is so dull and boring.
Maybe I should have kept the D2h, but Nikon was unable to get me one that didn’t die in the first day or two of use. So, I’ve now got the (better for me) D2x, but the D3 is so much better in every way - full frame, two memory cards, same rugged build, better menu, better almost everything. Then there’s the D4, and D5, and D6, that Joanna made me feel foolish for even thinking about it.
These images were taken with my 80-200 lens, which on the D2 series with a crop sensor meant it was effectively a 120-300mm lens. Of course, none of this matters any more, other than to historians, but I’ve got to admit, I still thoroughly enjoy using my D3. I know the D780 and D850 are infinitely better, but I enjoy using these old cameras.
_DSC0629.NEF (3.0 MB)
I wonder if DarkTable has anything like a “.dop” file with all my edits, and if so, how to find and copy it?
I suggest you make RAW your first choise of file type. I have not photographed JPGs for decades. My JPGs from long ago were baked at the moment of exposure. The editing scope with JPG files is very narrow. Everything has already been carved in stone from the camera.
Darktable is for raw editing, otherwise why bother learning a multi faceted raw editor.
Obviously some areas of your woodpecker images are out of gamut. Those parts will never change in a raw editor, due to missing data. It would take a pixel-editor to replace them with some kind of structure (should it be important).
Beautiful eagle (?)
You will find the answer to this question and many others that you have already asked in a thread started by you on the PIXLS.US forum.
Oh, and the best of luck trying to learn DT. I just tried to open your D2H file and after half an hour, still couldn’t find how to adjust the colour of the sky. Intuitive? Definitely not!
The logical next step is to open the raw image using Nikon editing software. I plan to try that this afternoon.
The D2x worked fine with my jpg “sports/racing” images, until it died on me, and went back to Nikon yet again. The last time it died, Nikon replaced it with a D2x, that I still have. Eventually I bought a D3 which I still use occasionally. All these old cameras earned me enough money to cover their cost, along with traveling around the world. The competition back then was Canon cameras.
“Intuitive”?
The more powerful the software, the less intuitive it becomes, for me.
I mostly decided this long ago, other than for “give-away” or “throw-away” photos. Most of my racing photos for magazines was done in jpg if for no other reason the magazines preferred this. Birthday photos and so on - jpg. All my current cameras are permanently in ‘raw’ mode. Even this group of Everglade photos - I must have noticed this part way through my visit, when I switched to ‘raw’. My cameras are permanently set to Manual mode for exposure, and I rarely change - but auto-ISO is helpful sometimes.
Yes, and PhotoLab too.
I try to convince people in India to change to ‘raw’, but they are deaf to that idea. They don’t think it matters.
In that case, when I try to edit in Nikon’s software, it’s not going to help. Well, I will never again be shooting with a Nikon D2h camera. Thanks for the explanation.
I rarely go to that forum - will do so and catch up. I hardly ever use DarkTable either. PhotoLab does what I want - but none of the people I work with in India will buy PhotoLab. Most use older versions of Adobe software.
Well, as I wrote earlier, none of this software is “intuitive”. I also wanted to change the color of the sky, but couldn’t figure out how to do so.
The only software that seems to do “everything” is from Adobe, which I no longer use.
Thanks to you, I can now “use” Control Lines, but I have to figure it out all over again for each use. Eventually, with enough use, maybe it too will become intuitive.
Or you could simply open it in Apple’s free Preview app and export to either TIFF or JPEG…
Then use any editor of choice on the TiFF/JPEG file. Here it is, exported as a 16bit TIFF, for extra precision, in PhotoLab…
All. I did was sharpen it up and add a tiny bit of Fine Contrast.
Or, for stunning results on the plumage, open the RAW in Topaz Photo AI, double the size, let the AI take charge of the sharpening - and you get a 5Mpx (8" x 10") print with this kind of detail, when viewed at 200% zoom…
I didn’t bother with the colour balance just for this example.
Not necessarily true. PhotoLab is a lot more intuitive than most of the competition and yet it is extremely powerful. Otherwise, I wouldn’t use it for preparing exhibition prints for myself and other photographers.
In that case, what is the point of teaching “sophisticated” and complicated editing software to them, when they could quite as easily use the photo editing software that comes free with the operating system to edit their JPEGs?
So, if they are already skilled in older Adobe software, why take them through the pain of learning something different? I doubt if they would want to spend the kind of money necessary to upgrade their hardware to support newer software either.
Here is the RAW, simply opened in Apple’s Photos app, reframed and sharpened…
I believe Windows offers a similar bundled app.
Define “everything”
Of course you do because every image needs its own custom Control Lines and/or Points
For your friends in India there’s also Gimp. It’s using Darktable as it’s raw converter and is free.
George
This is a very common reaction to new stuff*, Joanna.
It takes some time to set up and tune Darktable and to learn the 5-10 most important tools. It’s also recommended to work with raw files in Darktable to get a more responsive output. I export JPGs from Darktable on daily basis, but I would not dream of trying to edit a JPG. It’s not meant to be edited.
“Not intuitive” - No, but challenging in an interesting way. To improve our lifes we occationally have to walk an extra mile.
But if you are married to PhotoLab you will probably prefer to shame any new rival?
*) New stuff: Not a part of the once learned routine and thus probably not worth the effort.
“I use Darktable for all my raw editing”
“Don’t ever buy DxO PhotoLab.”
@Eigil_Skovgaard out of curiosity I just reviewed all 58 of your current posts here and found that the overwhelming majority of them extoll the virtues of Darktable over PhotoLab. I now realize that you are actually a Darktable troll. Other then pushing your agenda to get PhotoLab users to abandon it for Darktable you add no value to this site.
Mark
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… plus stirring up Mike Myers
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You are following a well known script. Silly it is but very common in cases where personal preferences can’t be defended with honest arguments.
I am writing about photography. You are writing in political terms with your last posting. It’s a shame.
I will point your attention to the fact that there’s no money involved with Darktable, so making me a troll is your way to defaim an oppinion you don’t like.
DxO’s PhotoLab is in the commercial category and people with commercial interests may promote it, obviously, and that’s their business.
As a satisfied user of DxO PureRAW 4 I am one of the users of this forum, and nobody tells me what to write, as long as I abide to the code of conduct.
For your information, I have had Darktable installed for a few years now and, from time to time, I have tried to make sense of it over that period. We have a member of our photo club who has given talks on using it. But, still, it is far too complicated and, as you say, it takes time to learn. Time that I, as a professional photographer and printer, don’t have.
What a load of unmitigated bunkum!!! JPEGs have been edited by professionals ever since digital photography started. They are more difficult, due to their more limited dynamic and tonal range but, just like transparency film, those who know what they are doing can work with them perfectly well.
I take it you are a hobbyist, who has time to play - we are not all in the same boat.
It has nothing to do with “shaming” rivals. I also use other software when the need arises but I have never found Darktable to be the answer to a single image processing problem that I couldn’t do with another tool.
If it weren’t for developers being paid to do their job, we would be constantly relying on hobbyist programmers taking the bread and butter out of professionals’ mouths and having no legal liability for any faults. or damages incurred.
If you haven’t got anything constructive or helpful to say about PhotoLab, please desist from trolling others.
Oh, and by the way, if I mention Topaz, it is as an adjunct to PhotoLab, for specialised printing purposes, not a total replacement.
This is a private site owned by DxO. I would never attempt to censor you or anyone else posting here regardless of my personal feelings. However, DxO monitors this site. They have banned users in past for various reasons including trolling. If they perceive your behavior as troll like it is unclear what they might do.
Mark
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Which DarkTable forum do you use the most, and what is your “handle”? I will join that forum, if I’m not already a member, and gladly discuss these things with you there.
Me? If it’s acceptable to post about Topaz, it is equally as acceptable to post about DarkTable.
Most of my questions about PhotoLab eventually got answered/explained, but I certainly DO have questions about DarkTable, and after the above discussions, I’m certainly not going to ask them here.
Is that something “good”, or “bad”?
I very much want to get back involved in infrared photography, but my only camera that can do that properly now is my Leica M8.2 that PhotoLab doesn’t support (unless I “cheat” and change the EXIF data to “M10”).
Why would I want to do that, when I already have Nikon NX Studio installed on my computer? Why not use the software that Nikon designed for their cameras, if I can’t use my preferred software?
For obvious reasons, I would prefer to use the RAW file.
Excellent suggestion, but why not open it first in Nikon NX Studio, make any needed changes, and only then open it in Topaz Photo AI ?
To you, it’s intuitive. To me, it certainly is not, once we get past the basic tasks. But (thanks mostly to YOU, I’ve gotten to learn and enjoy PhotoLab, even if I didn’t learn it a thoroughly as Mark wants me to do.
Irrelevant. They all use Lightroom now, although many of their computers are not up to date. I already suggested DarkTable, and did a demonstration perhaps three years ago. No interest, other than people with no access to Lightroom.
Sorry, I meant the theory of how it works, not the mechanics. To me, 'Custom Control Lines and/or Points" is something I need to re-learn every time I want to use them. Wonderful tool, but I’m “slow”.
I tried twice to learn Gimp, and never got off to a good start. Lightroom was far more intuitive. I haven’t opened Gimp in ten or fifteen years…
Again, where can I find you on a DarkTable forum, to ask some basic questions? I do have a list of my most important tools, and they mostly work, eventually. I don’t want to ask here, as some people feel it is inappropriate. That there is no charge to install DarkTable, and that there is no charge for updates, means it will forever be one of my “tools”. I’ve probably got a dozen or so editing programs on my computer, but 99% of the time it is only two - PhotoLab and DarkTable. The remaining 1% covers Nikon NX Studio, Photomatix, and another ten or so apps that are no longer in my Mac “dock”. If someone want to change the sky in their photo, no problem. Not that I would use it on my photos.
I agree about “powerful”, but I’m not sure about “intuitive”? There is a learning curve before users can use he software effectively. Nothing wrong with that.
Lightroom is a raw converter like PL, Photoshop is an editor with a raw converter entrance. Like Gimp.
For your friends in India, its free.
George
I opened Nikon NX Studio, and edited (eventually) this one photo. I got it close to what I wanted to do, but to say I was “lost” would be an understatement. Eventually I did get what I might want to post. I have no idea how to post the equivalent of a .dop file, with my editing adjustments, but I can easily post the original RAW file:
_DSC0472.NEF (2.9 MB)
As of now, while I did sort of get NX Studio to open my image, and make a few adjustments, I have no plans whatever to use it in the future. I doubt I’ll be looking for more of my Nikon D2h photos either. I wanted to lighten the dark feathers on the back of the bird, but only did it a little. With PhotoLab and control points, this would be a no-brainer.
I’m coming away from all this with so much more confidence in PhotoLab than anything else, but DarkTable is a close second. I obviously need to learn both, if I want to start doing infrared photography again.
So many people involved in these forums, but so few are posting their images. I wish more of us were doing so.