I mostly decided this long ago, other than for “give-away” or “throw-away” photos. Most of my racing photos for magazines was done in jpg if for no other reason the magazines preferred this. Birthday photos and so on - jpg. All my current cameras are permanently in ‘raw’ mode. Even this group of Everglade photos - I must have noticed this part way through my visit, when I switched to ‘raw’. My cameras are permanently set to Manual mode for exposure, and I rarely change - but auto-ISO is helpful sometimes.
Yes, and PhotoLab too.
I try to convince people in India to change to ‘raw’, but they are deaf to that idea. They don’t think it matters.
In that case, when I try to edit in Nikon’s software, it’s not going to help. Well, I will never again be shooting with a Nikon D2h camera. Thanks for the explanation.
I rarely go to that forum - will do so and catch up. I hardly ever use DarkTable either. PhotoLab does what I want - but none of the people I work with in India will buy PhotoLab. Most use older versions of Adobe software.
Well, as I wrote earlier, none of this software is “intuitive”. I also wanted to change the color of the sky, but couldn’t figure out how to do so.
The only software that seems to do “everything” is from Adobe, which I no longer use.
Thanks to you, I can now “use” Control Lines, but I have to figure it out all over again for each use. Eventually, with enough use, maybe it too will become intuitive.
All. I did was sharpen it up and add a tiny bit of Fine Contrast.
Or, for stunning results on the plumage, open the RAW in Topaz Photo AI, double the size, let the AI take charge of the sharpening - and you get a 5Mpx (8" x 10") print with this kind of detail, when viewed at 200% zoom…
Not necessarily true. PhotoLab is a lot more intuitive than most of the competition and yet it is extremely powerful. Otherwise, I wouldn’t use it for preparing exhibition prints for myself and other photographers.
In that case, what is the point of teaching “sophisticated” and complicated editing software to them, when they could quite as easily use the photo editing software that comes free with the operating system to edit their JPEGs?
So, if they are already skilled in older Adobe software, why take them through the pain of learning something different? I doubt if they would want to spend the kind of money necessary to upgrade their hardware to support newer software either.
Here is the RAW, simply opened in Apple’s Photos app, reframed and sharpened…
This is a very common reaction to new stuff*, Joanna.
It takes some time to set up and tune Darktable and to learn the 5-10 most important tools. It’s also recommended to work with raw files in Darktable to get a more responsive output. I export JPGs from Darktable on daily basis, but I would not dream of trying to edit a JPG. It’s not meant to be edited.
“Not intuitive” - No, but challenging in an interesting way. To improve our lifes we occationally have to walk an extra mile.
But if you are married to PhotoLab you will probably prefer to shame any new rival?
*) New stuff: Not a part of the once learned routine and thus probably not worth the effort.
“I use Darktable for all my raw editing” “Don’t ever buy DxO PhotoLab.”
@Eigil_Skovgaard out of curiosity I just reviewed all 58 of your current posts here and found that the overwhelming majority of them extoll the virtues of Darktable over PhotoLab. I now realize that you are actually a Darktable troll. Other then pushing your agenda to get PhotoLab users to abandon it for Darktable you add no value to this site.
You are following a well known script. Silly it is but very common in cases where personal preferences can’t be defended with honest arguments.
I am writing about photography. You are writing in political terms with your last posting. It’s a shame.
I will point your attention to the fact that there’s no money involved with Darktable, so making me a troll is your way to defaim an oppinion you don’t like.
DxO’s PhotoLab is in the commercial category and people with commercial interests may promote it, obviously, and that’s their business.
As a satisfied user of DxO PureRAW 4 I am one of the users of this forum, and nobody tells me what to write, as long as I abide to the code of conduct.
For your information, I have had Darktable installed for a few years now and, from time to time, I have tried to make sense of it over that period. We have a member of our photo club who has given talks on using it. But, still, it is far too complicated and, as you say, it takes time to learn. Time that I, as a professional photographer and printer, don’t have.
What a load of unmitigated bunkum!!! JPEGs have been edited by professionals ever since digital photography started. They are more difficult, due to their more limited dynamic and tonal range but, just like transparency film, those who know what they are doing can work with them perfectly well.
I take it you are a hobbyist, who has time to play - we are not all in the same boat.
It has nothing to do with “shaming” rivals. I also use other software when the need arises but I have never found Darktable to be the answer to a single image processing problem that I couldn’t do with another tool.
If it weren’t for developers being paid to do their job, we would be constantly relying on hobbyist programmers taking the bread and butter out of professionals’ mouths and having no legal liability for any faults. or damages incurred.
If you haven’t got anything constructive or helpful to say about PhotoLab, please desist from trolling others.
Oh, and by the way, if I mention Topaz, it is as an adjunct to PhotoLab, for specialised printing purposes, not a total replacement.
This is a private site owned by DxO. I would never attempt to censor you or anyone else posting here regardless of my personal feelings. However, DxO monitors this site. They have banned users in past for various reasons including trolling. If they perceive your behavior as troll like it is unclear what they might do.
Which DarkTable forum do you use the most, and what is your “handle”? I will join that forum, if I’m not already a member, and gladly discuss these things with you there.
Me? If it’s acceptable to post about Topaz, it is equally as acceptable to post about DarkTable.
Most of my questions about PhotoLab eventually got answered/explained, but I certainly DO have questions about DarkTable, and after the above discussions, I’m certainly not going to ask them here.
Is that something “good”, or “bad”?
I very much want to get back involved in infrared photography, but my only camera that can do that properly now is my Leica M8.2 that PhotoLab doesn’t support (unless I “cheat” and change the EXIF data to “M10”).
Why would I want to do that, when I already have Nikon NX Studio installed on my computer? Why not use the software that Nikon designed for their cameras, if I can’t use my preferred software?
For obvious reasons, I would prefer to use the RAW file.
Excellent suggestion, but why not open it first in Nikon NX Studio, make any needed changes, and only then open it in Topaz Photo AI ?
To you, it’s intuitive. To me, it certainly is not, once we get past the basic tasks. But (thanks mostly to YOU, I’ve gotten to learn and enjoy PhotoLab, even if I didn’t learn it a thoroughly as Mark wants me to do.
Irrelevant. They all use Lightroom now, although many of their computers are not up to date. I already suggested DarkTable, and did a demonstration perhaps three years ago. No interest, other than people with no access to Lightroom.
Sorry, I meant the theory of how it works, not the mechanics. To me, 'Custom Control Lines and/or Points" is something I need to re-learn every time I want to use them. Wonderful tool, but I’m “slow”.
I tried twice to learn Gimp, and never got off to a good start. Lightroom was far more intuitive. I haven’t opened Gimp in ten or fifteen years…
Again, where can I find you on a DarkTable forum, to ask some basic questions? I do have a list of my most important tools, and they mostly work, eventually. I don’t want to ask here, as some people feel it is inappropriate. That there is no charge to install DarkTable, and that there is no charge for updates, means it will forever be one of my “tools”. I’ve probably got a dozen or so editing programs on my computer, but 99% of the time it is only two - PhotoLab and DarkTable. The remaining 1% covers Nikon NX Studio, Photomatix, and another ten or so apps that are no longer in my Mac “dock”. If someone want to change the sky in their photo, no problem. Not that I would use it on my photos.
I agree about “powerful”, but I’m not sure about “intuitive”? There is a learning curve before users can use he software effectively. Nothing wrong with that.
I opened Nikon NX Studio, and edited (eventually) this one photo. I got it close to what I wanted to do, but to say I was “lost” would be an understatement. Eventually I did get what I might want to post. I have no idea how to post the equivalent of a .dop file, with my editing adjustments, but I can easily post the original RAW file:
As of now, while I did sort of get NX Studio to open my image, and make a few adjustments, I have no plans whatever to use it in the future. I doubt I’ll be looking for more of my Nikon D2h photos either. I wanted to lighten the dark feathers on the back of the bird, but only did it a little. With PhotoLab and control points, this would be a no-brainer.
I’m coming away from all this with so much more confidence in PhotoLab than anything else, but DarkTable is a close second. I obviously need to learn both, if I want to start doing infrared photography again.
So many people involved in these forums, but so few are posting their images. I wish more of us were doing so.
I don’t want you do do anything. All I have suggested was putting more personal effort into learning PhotoLab so you would be less of a burden to all those who have spent a considerable amount of their time over the years trying to bring you up to speed.
Understood. Your version is better than what I wrote. I’m pretty sure everyone here understands, and I’m certainly putting in a lot more effort than before. Maybe it shows.
Mike, if you want to join a Darktable forum the main one is pixls dot us (be aware of the spelling). I think there are others, but I rarely attend any of them. I read the manual. In case something doesn’t work you can ask for help on pixls. If a bug shows up, you submit a report on Issues · darktable-org/darktable · GitHub.
The way forward is to watch videos on YT about DT. I can recommend the series by Bruce Williams - primarily from 2024. Be sure to use the newest version (currently 4.8.1), get it from darktable dot org.
Also videos by Boris Hajdukovic, who is a wizard in DT tricks.
And latest the editing examples from Darktable Landscapes. Btw. - his latest title was “The Best Raw Processor is Completely Free” (not my words, but the man is right).
Hope it can help, and good luck.
Don’t believe that Darktable is difficult to learn just because people with practical limitations tell you so. It isn’t.
The problem with this conversation is that it is getting confused.
You indicated that you were wanting to try and teach Darktable to your friends in India. But I am questioning why you would do that, when they already have their own way of working with Lightroom and they don’t seem too bothered about working with RAW files.
You were looking for an app that would handle images from cameras that DxO doesn’t support and you thought that Darktable would be the way to go.
I believe that you were thinking that you could combine the two, with the excuse of teaching as a motive for learning it.
You, yourself, have said you are barely getting to grips with PhotoLab, which makes me question the wisdom of embarking on the odyssey of learning one of the more complicated apps there is around.
Apart from one Darktable enthusiast, who has something against DxO, you are not really going to find too much information in these fora and the wisest possible course of action is to get back to the PIXL.US fora that you are already part of and start asking questions there. Start reading the manual, start watching videos but, most importantly, ask folks who use it every day, not this bunch of DxO users.
As to your own needs to process RAW files that are not supported by DXO, then I have suggested several alternatives, including the possibility of using something like Adobe’s ACR as a RAW converter and exporting TIFFs or JPEGs to either bring back into PhotoLab or whichever app floats your boat.
The main compromise will be that you won’t get DeepPRIME noise reduction, which is applied on the rAW data on export from PhotoLab.
Based on the reaction of most photo club members to the presentations we have had on Darktable, most folks went away more confused and frustrated than educated. Which is why I, personally, would question the wisdom of following that path. Even more so if you think you can learn enough to teach others in a short time period.
By all means move to Nikon’s own software, but you will discover there is a whole load of functionality that you will miss when compared to what you are used to.
NX Studio produces a .nksc sidecar file, as long as you select the option, in a subfolder of the current folder. You would need to find the appropriate sidecar from the folder if you wanted to send it to someone.
I am going to continue to use PhotoLab as my main editor.
I am going to re-learn enough about DarkTable for use with un-supported cameras.
I have no idea what will happen in India - VERY FEW people have access to the Adobe software that is used “officially”, and many other people want a FREE editor, mostly for Windows, but some for Apple.
I fully intend to shoot in RAW only, unless it’s for “giveaway” photos.
I’m not combining anything - I want to be as fluent in DarkTable as I am now with PhotoLab, and I want to continue learning more with PhotoLab.
As to getting to grips with DarkTable, I’m already using it (but not as well as with PhotoLab).
It’s all rather simple. And if it’s a struggle, most things that are worth doing involve a struggle. No big deal.
No need to discuss this any more, but feel free to ask, or make suggestions, or to make critical comments. For me, this is a “hobby”. I enjoy it. I enjoy talking about it. I’ve got nothing to prove, to nobody.
I would like to create one image I enjoy every day. That’s sort of becoming a goal. If I don’t like it, it’s unlikely anyone else will like it. Maybe it’s a challenge. But everything will come to a halt in the very near future, when I fly to India.
Thanks for the suggestions, even if I don’t use several of them.
Agreed, I will use PIXL.US for DarkTable information, just as I do now in this forum for PhotoLab.
For my own needs, between PL and DT, everything is covered.
Correct, I won’t have Deep Prime for images processed in DT.
I have zero intention of using Nikon’s software. No need.
