A bit of a negative headline I know but when you’ve spent 5 hours trying to fix a seemingly untested product you begin to regret making the switch from LR+PS. I just wonder if anyone else has had any of these problems:
Opening an image from PL8 to FP7 when the source NEF has AdobeRGB color profile, (opening as jpeg or tiff) - message in the logs “missing colour profile, defaulting to sRGB”
But - that aside (which is a serious problem) - no images are saved. Well. It has a pattern of sometimes saving an image but then not. Sometimes when it doesn’t save there is a message in the log about external saver failing (this seems to an a separate .exe file). But, sometimes not. You choose Save or Save As and nothing is saved. No message. Just nothing saved.
The unsintall / reinstall routine on Windows doesn’t seem to have been tested. If you uninstall it and then reinstall it to the same folder it barfs - won’t modify files which the uninstall left behind.
Actually - after the above and after a reboot it now just crashes - which, in a way, is better than taunting you with a really nice film emulation which it then silently won’t save!
Update
For info: I upgraded PL 7 to 8 and removed PL 7 before FP stopped working so, given that nothing else changed on my system, (apart from maybe normal Windows updates), that seems the likely trigger.
Interestingly; all the film renderings and also the ‘extra features’ like luminosity masks are still available in PL8 despite my having uninstalled FP7 and completely deleted the folder under program files where it was installed! I am guessing that some plugins or modules for these are stopped somewhere else - perhaps in /AppData - though I can’t see them there. (Maybe: C:\Program Files\DxO\DxO PhotoLab 8\Dependencies\FilmPackResources and C:\Program Files\DxO\DxO PhotoLab 8\Presets
Has anyone else has similar experiences and is there a fix?
That is, you open a RAW file in PL8, apply, for example, the built-in FP renderings, then export to disk as a new RGB file (JPEG, TIFF) in any available color space, not just the one your camera was set to, while you are saving your output.
If you export to application instead, for example to FP Standalone, PL8 prompts you to apply a color profile and you generate (and save) a new RGB file.
@Wolfgang - Sounds promising. I will test this if/when I can get FP to even work at all.
In general, I think this point is not very clear. If I export to application and do not choose to apply a colour profile I would have assumed that the exported jpeg (or tiff) would be created in the same colour space corresponding to the Profile the image was captured in and which is indicated in the EXIF. But; it seems the newly created image which is exported to FP does not have a colour profile and FP then defaults to sRGB. As I say; I will test that the option to chose a profile for the export works when/if I can get FP to even save files.
There was a never-ending thread a while back about whether an sRGB profile is “embedded” or not. While I mention it, don’t let it sway you (too much).
I suspect most users will leave the default setting “As Shot.” In this case, either AdobeRGB or sRGB are the valid options. → However, in the case of sRGB, it is ‘better’ to explicitly choose sRGB IEC61966-2.1
.
Well, I hope your installations run smoothly soon. I remember @Egregius giving you some tips on disk access or else.
@Wolfgang - I will read that thread. (Funnily enough I was just reading something about ‘embedding’ a colour profile).
For reference; my problem was this: images are captured using Adobe RGB. This is fully recognised by other programs. But when I did Send to Application as jpeg or tiff from PL8 to FP7 using the As Shot option I did not get an Adobe RGB image. In the FP logs I saw “Missing colour profile. Defaulting to sRGB”. That was the surprise. - When I then returned the image it seems to have have been given a DXO Wide Gamut colour profile. This was the problem. I can’t test what happens if I explicitly assign a profile due to the installation problems.
After a lot of trying various things I now have FilmPack 7 saving files. Unfortunately, because I wasn’t very systematic in my efforts, I can’t be 100% sure which change fixed the problem. The two likely candidates are:
Installing the latest version of Visual C++ Redistributable and/or the latest version of my graphics driver
Removing clutter from the FilmPack modules folder. C:\Users\USER\AppData\Local\DxO_Labs\DxO FilmPack 7\Modules
In the folder I had two databases: CAFList.db and CAFListFP7.db and various *.caf files. Some of these I had manually copied from the PL8 Modules folder - because at one point FilmPack was stalling on download of “corrections”. (I have a perennial problem with downloading the optics modules due to ISP restrictions and often have to do it manually via a proxy server and then place them in the folder manually). My assumption is that the caf files are interchangeable between PL8 and FP7 - but I don’t know for sure. I removed all these and removed FP7 and then reinstalled it.
At the moment FP saves - but it takes about 4-5 minutes. Frustratingly, the only indication
that something is happening is that a progress bar appears in the last few seconds of the save. I don’t know if this is expected behaviour, or still an error. It would be a great help if the progress bar appeared straight away and then actually showed progress. The 5 minute wait when you don’t know what is going to happen might lead to assumptions that it is not going to save at all.
Regarding the separate issue of the colour profiles. @Wolfgang - yes. The thing to do is choose a colour profile as you export. The image then gets this space/profile. I’ve tested and it works. However; if you export a raw file “as shot” it seems to end up in the DXO Wide Gamut space (despite an error message in the logs about ‘defaulting to sRGB’). This is the correct behaviour. I have understood that while I am shooting in AdobeRGB (setting on camera) that only affects jpegs from the camera. So - even if AdobeRGB is in the EXIF it doesn’t mean the raw image is in the space. So - to give it Wide Gamut is correct.
Finally; I am now convinced that it isn’t necessary to use FP at all; just use the filters in PL8. (I think there must be something wrong with the FP saver - a separate .exe file - because PL never takes 5 minutes to save an image).
Yes - that’s a MUCH more efficient way of working … You don’t even need to have FP installed - As noted (above) by Platypus, you can simply activate FP from within PL.
Standalone FP is for users who don’t have PhotoLab.
As you correctly note; that only affects jpegs from the camera … So it’s pointless, unless you’re capturing [RAW + JPGs] - Even so, there are (probably unwanted) implications;
If you are capturing JPGs - then they’ll be recorded in the AdobeRGB color-space - so, they may not look as you might expect when shared with others, or posted to the interwebs, on sRGB devices.
If you are processing RAW files in PL - then, unless you specifically select another ICC Profile when Exporting-to-disk, PL will export “As Shot” (= AdobeRGB) with the same issues as noted in the previous point.
So, unless you have a specific (and clearly understood) reason for setting your camera to record in the AdobeRGB color space - then don’t.
You’ll avoid unintended problems if you stick with the sRGB setting in your camera.
PS. You might like to adjust the wording in the title of this post, to better explain your issue.
If I send a RAW file to FP ‘As Shot’ it ends up with the DXO Wide Gamut space/profile. (I think ‘Adobe RGB’ may be tagged in the Exif, but it ignores that). As shot = Wide Gamut - for the Nefs.
On the subject to shooting in AdobeRGB. Yes; I am now persuaded. On my DSLRs I shoot RAW+JPEG and generally work with the RAW files. The jpegs are for back up (on a separate card). So - in this case, having AdobeRGB does not help me particularly (since it does not apply to the raw files).
On my Nikon Z50 which I use as a light alternative to the DSLRs I mostly shoot jpegs and use them pretty much straight out of the camera (I’ve put up saturation and sharpening in camera) - in this case I think I will switch to sRGB as my most likely use case is going to be online.
Probably not, unless you asked the software to use that color space for rendering or export. DxO Wide Gamut is a working color space in DxO software, not normally the color space in which an image is ultimately rendered. If AdobeRGB is how the image was shot and stored in the camera, and you’re rendering or exporting the image into the AdobeRGB color space (or as shot), and your monitor/display is set up to reproduce AdobeRGB colors, then that’s the color space in which your image is being rendered on screen. Then DxO Wide Gamut is the larger color space in which computations are being performed by DxO software.
As I said this is what happens! I tested it. So, unless I was hallucinating this is what happens. (PL8 / FP7).
A few clarifications may be in order;
As noted above in this thread the colour profile choice in the camera has no direct affect on RAW files. However; that information may be stored in the EXIF.
The question of what colour profile an image has is independent of the colour space of your monitor. (Most apps. will perform necessary mapping).
Yes; I was slightly surprised that DXO Wide Gamut is used for an exported image profile; but why not.
Tested standalone FP 7.14 with a .CR2 file and exported it as 16 bit TIFF…which ended up listing DxO Wide Gamut as colour space - twice in the ICC_Profile group of tags as reported by ExifTool. Most other colour managed apps will open this file in the respective preset working colour space (WCS). Adobe Photoshop asked what it should do with the embedded colour space.
PhotoLab was not involved → FP7 uses the DxO Wide gamut WCS too.
Just reading what @platypus mentioned I tried this my self – and yes, it is FP7 that saves / embedds DxO WideGamut RGB
more in detail
I used a file where the camera had been set to AdobeRGB.
Exported from PL8 to application → FP7
(yes, normally one doesn’t, but I did so for the sake of testing …)
and chose “As shot” → the resulting tif showed AdobeRGB.
.
To control I exported a 2nd version as “P3” → the resulting tif showed “P3”.
In FP7 standalone I increased the saturation but nothing else (there is no choice to set a color space) and saved the output with a different name.
.
In both cases (AdobeRGB and P3) the resulting tif showed “DxO WideGamut RGB”.
Well, I didn’t expect that
To countercheck I exported a 3rd version as “sRGB” → the resulting tif didn’t show up with an ICC profile, but checking with PS → showed sRGB
(debatable if it is embedded, but recognized).
In FP7 I reduced the saturation and saved the output with a different name.
.
The resulting tif showed “DxO WideGamut RGB”.
I really don’t know if FP7 behaves correctly. – However, one does not lose colors and can (should) export/convert to any other common color space.
@Wolfgang thanks for confirming my conclusions with your thorough test, including a control test.
I think it makes perfect sense. If I have a raw file (tagged as shot in AdobeRGB but with no actual profile, because it is a raw file), and then I export it from PL to FP with ‘As Shot’ chosen, what should FP do? The image comes from the working space of PL which is DXO Wide Gamut, (as @Egregius says). FP importer should not take heed of the tag AdobeRGB, (assuming it is there at all), because this is just informational. It is not a standard, and won’t be consistent across cameras. So - to adopt the current profile makes perfect sense. And, while it may be unusual to have a final exported image in DXO Wide Gamut, there is no reason why not. It is just another space/profile. I would rather it did this then converted it to say sRGB. I think DXO are making the smart choice here.
Thanks, again, for confirming what I thought with your very thorough testing.
(However; as I think I mentioned, in this case, I did see a message in the logs about ‘no colour profile, converting to sRGB’. That suggests an intention to convert to sRGB, which is not executed. So, possibly, yes, this is not the intended behaviour by DXO, in which case I should mention it to them. I have an open support case with them, and will mention this behaviour to them).
Oh. Well. It depends what file you are talking about? RAW or jpeg? You don’t specify. It “works perfectly” for RAW files or rgb files? My case is about RAW files…
So. I just tested one more time. NEF RAW (tagged as AdobeRGB). Opened in PL8. Send to FP 7 “As shot”. Save from FP 7 as jpeg. Open jpeg in AF2. Confirms DXO Wide Gamut. (I assume that AF2 reads correctly of course).
As per the above, my tests also confirm what you say; repeat this but send as ‘AdobeRGB’ and the final image gets AdobeRGB.
Whether it is a bug or not in FP, (that sending a raw file “As shot” ends up as Wide Gamut), seems to me to be a matter of opinion. As per my explanation above, the ‘As Shot’ result is perfectly logical.
but the error in the log file:
fpv7.txt <> - CE INFO: DXOColorManagementProfile::Create_FromExif: No information about ColorProfile in Exif data, defaulting to sRGB
28841 [20404] INFO
suggests a possible intent to convert to sRGB.
Apart from that you appear to be reporting a separate issue with standalone FP, though, given that you haven’t specified if the source image is raw or rgb it is not clear exactly what that bug is. I don’t use FP in standalone mode and it doesn’t bother me. If you have discovered a bug here perhaps you should report it to DXO? It is outside the scope of my support case with them.
Canon Professional Print & Layout : profile for paper (usually Canson Baryta Photographique II)
Don’t forget that the DxO profile is only for the working space and should not be exported. For printing, any conversion should be from the camera profile to the paper profile, ignoring the working profile.
Do not bother with FP standalone.
Or, at least, that is what works for me every time.
The camera was set to AdobeRGB, for example.
.
You open the raw file in PL 8, use the (built in) FP 7 PlugIn
to apply a film rendering, for example → VC 1
.
From PL 8 you Export to disk with setting “As shot”, for example,
and your resulting RGB output file → xxx_1.jpg gets “AdobeRGB” color space
( while when using the image for web you better export as “sRGB” ).
This is the usual use case when operating from PL.
NOW … you open the same raw file in PL 8, Export to application → FP 7,
choose “As shot”, for example, … using FP 7 as Standalone version !
