Deep Prime on tiff files(scans of dia positives)?

I bought DxO Photolap Elite 5 because I read a lot of it very good denois functionality.
The problem is, that neither Prime nor Deep Prime can be used on that files.
Will DxO Photolap Elite 6 Deep Prime work on scanned tiffs ?
Or would Pure-Raw work ?

Thanks in advance

DeepPRIME is designed purely for RAW files. You could always try Topaz DeNoise AI, which does work with non-RAW files, but the results are not as good.

Have you thought of using a slide copier or copy stand on a camera that does produce RAW files?

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All sorts of setups can be used. Check out this site for inspiration.

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This is practically useless, as DP or DP-XD will get rid of the noise that is generated by the camera. The noise in scans, however, is mainly the grain in the film. Applications like NeatImage are the way to go, as they analyze the noise in the scan, build a noise profile and remove the noise with limited impact on the scan quality. See e.g. my example in DXO PL Deep prime and Vuescan - #35 by HanSch

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No and no. DeepPRIME and DeepPRIME XD can only be used on RAW files and the nature of these features means they will never work on anything other than RAW files.

Those with Nik Filters / Nik Collection can try “DFine” to denoise scanned tiffs.
But – inspite of being handy (e.g. excluding colours …) – it is an really old piece of software.

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Hi Joanna,
thanks for the info.
I only have the problem with my old slides/dia positives(>20.000 pictures), which I had all be scanned by a company.
With digital cameras, I’ve always used raw files since I could afford a camera that could produce raw files in 2003. Here I do not have that much problems with noice as I created most of that pictures during the day with enough light.

I also baught the NIK-Collection. But the Denoise function does not wor very well.

I too have lots of old slides but I have my own slide scanner (a Nikon V ED) and so I can, and do, address noise and grain when I scan a slide, using the scanner’s own software. However, since your slides have already been scanned that option is not available to you.

@HanSch has already pointed out that noise in scans of slides is mainly the grain in the film. I have no experience of the application he suggested, Neat Image, but the results in his post that he linked to look good. If I had 20000 images to process I’d start by investigating Neat Image.

@u.kaemmerer : if you wish, you can send me here one of your scans (tiff file), and I will process it with NeatImage and share the result here.

I have scanned a lot of coarse-grained Agfa for a long time and NeatImage cant´t do all that much to these noise problems either. In fact, I tested it after a tip a few days here in the forum. I once used it maybe 15 years ago but a new test didn´t convince me at all. It just really smears all out so I prefer the coarser patina these images normally get by my normal method.

What I have found have worked the best for me is still Photolab - not because of Lens correction sharpening or Deep Prime or make RAW through repro photo because it´s not really but the RAW either since all the normal tools that works with RAW with digitally born images doesn´t work at all on these images.

Så what is working?

The best advice is just pull MIcrocontrast as far as it is possible to the negative side since too much Microcontrast gives alot of problems with dirty skies.
The second best is to meet up with Fine Contrast instead to maybe 30-35 or of your choise.
The only sharpening working in Photolab on images like this is “Bicubic Sharper” that is applied during the export process.
You can alså test the split the grain with chosing a fine grain emulation like Kodak T-max 100 or something like that.

When preparing images it´s all about not making them worse than they are really. Dia positive isn´t fun at all whatever you do to it.

Unlike Photolab Capture One has sharpening that really works on my dia positives so don´t rule out C1 because sometimes C1 gives better control on sharpening too. So it there is something else I´m thinking and that is to maybe give C1 a shot again. I have also tested Topaz on JPEG-files but wasn´t al that impressed by that either. I think I got better results with C1.

Well, experiences may differ, and @Stenis is definitely not satisfied :wink: I don’t sell N-I, so I don’t mind at all if someone uses it or not.
In my experience, N-I doesn’t smear out the image. But I never used it for a large batch of film. I only scanned a selection of my slides. Why? Because slides, in general, need a lot of post-processing to come to a, in my opinion, acceptable result. And better: use multipass, multi-exposure scanning to bring up the details in the dark parts of the slides. So digitizing thousands of slides is a hell of a job, unless you are satisfied with moderate results. If you use N-I in batch mode, all images will be processed with the same noise profile. For best results, you need to profile every single image. Next, if you find your results “smeared out”, you probably used non-optimal settings and pushed especially the luminance slider too far. For the same reason, I usually set the luminance slider in DP or DP-XD very low, to avoid plastic images.
There are many parameters in the N-I pro-version. And yes, there is no free lunch, you will lose some details.

Scanning negatives is a lot easier than slides, because of the low dynamic range (at least a factor 30 less than slides). Batch scanning of negatives, and certainly B&W negatives that you developed yourself in a consistent way, is very well possible.

Hi @u.kaemmerer , I had the same problem with my scanned negatives tiff files.
Dxo pl is a great editor for raw files and for some of us it’s a one stop shop for raw files, however if it’s a non raw format it’s quite frustrating.
So for my scanned files,I ended up with buying Topaz photo ai bundle (on black Friday)
Works perfectly on eliminating the flatbed scanner noise (Epson V700), from this point you can go to dxo (again, a non raw file) but since I had the Luminar neo too, used it to finish up the photo. It has a Remove color cast tool that again works perfectly on old negative color casting.
Nevertheless, since you already have Dxo PL and I red a bove that you have the nik collection too, As dor me, at the beginning I used my Google Nik collection 2.0 (free version):
*Define module to remove the noise (manual selection of areas for noise reduction measurements is preferred)
*Color efex module to remove color casting.

*** Since you have more than 20k photos, I would suggest the Topaz for this task.

If you would like to, I’ll try to create a demo video of both methods on the sane image. Or even on your file if you will upload it.

I just made a few test with the testversion and that comes in Neat Images case with a limited tool set. That is not so wise of them because then I might have missed out on some of the better functions. So, I wasn´t all that impressed by might not have seen it all so to speak :slight_smile:

It takes a lot of testing to find a developing process with old dia positive film and it took me several years really and I´m sure there are better ways than mine.

Hi @u.kaemmerer
Just made a short video comparing noise reduction on Topaz Denoise and Nik Collection

The files are here (source tiff file, TDN ext. =topaz DXO ext. =Nik) :

neg35-014.tif (38.2 MB)

Hi Doron,
thank you very much for the comparison & overview.

just to add

  • if ever I copy slides (not negatives) with my cam
    ( still have, but not use a flatbed scanner / would work for medium format,
    but way to little resolution for 24x36mm → better with a dedicated filmscanner )

  • in earlier times I always used DFine in manual mode / and also on layers
    ( in full automatic you often get mushy results )
    and Nik OutputSharpener → normal mode for printing / adaptive mode for online stuff
    ( never used Nik Pre/RawSharpener )

Thanks @Wolfgang scanning with a camera & macro lens is probably preferable I decided to buy the “Epson Perfection V700 Photo” which has native resolution of 1600 DPI (I am scanning at 2400 dpi, I believe that for 300-100 dpi printing I could get 8" to 24" print. But the Flatbed itself introduces some noise.
The Nik Pre/RawSharpener, is meant to be used on “raw” (tiff or jpeg before editing) Files. Since the Topaz is giving me an easier workflow and better results, I don’t use Nik for Scanned files noise reduction.