Deciding for a new desktop for dxoPL

DxO PhotoLab Windows topics
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I am creating a new topic because the old one was 2023.

Finaly my old 2011 dell is too old to use for dxopl.
So i in the market for a new system.
Track one is buying used product which jield a decend system for aroind 1300 euro.
‘HP Z2 G9 Tower | i7 12700 | 32gb DDR5 | 1tb SSD | RTX 4000’
I believe the higer end 13 and 14 gen i7’s having stability problems.
Voltage is too high for it’s own good so it dies more easily.
Dutch tech site
List of problem cpu’s

Aldoh it might be caused by mildly overclocking in gaming pc’s but i don’t know for sure. And my system should be running marathons not sprint’s so cooling and efficienty is key for the electronic’s.

Therefore my other track is AMD pcu.
Like the Ryzen 9 7900(x) (7700 or such.
Mildly problem website’s who are having the choose your system we build it for you have not this 7900 in there listing.
5700 max
In the back of my mind years ago AMD mbo’s where rather difficult to upgrate and the videocards where more expensive because of the less amount of sold boxes with a adm compatible chipset.
So going cheaper/safer on the cpu amd could bite me in the ass with the gpu pricing and availibility.
And other thing could be dxo’s programming in rendering.
Does AMD cpu/gpu chipset better or worse then the intel based more common i7 series with there intel based videogpu chipsets?

The goal is to stay under 1800 euro’s.
Intel build your own is like this
It’s around 1/3 more expensive but probably more suited/tailored to my usage.

Ok til this point goes my research and culling.
Maybe one of you can give me some advise/ inside in the choosing of products to home in the Pinnacle of effeicient and good but not overkill system for years of fun.

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Hi, Peter.

If you’d like to stay with Dell - then this one looks good (on the Dell Australia site);

https://www.dell.com/en-au/shop/desktops-workstations-all-in-ones/xps-8960-desktop/spd/xps-8960-desktop

Note the NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 4060 GPU.

John

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It depends on which tasks you want to work on. For the functions that Photolab currently offers, John-M’s suggestion is very appropriate. If you want to integrate more AI tasks into your process, it’s more difficult to say. In the new beta of Topaz Gigapixel, a repair function is integrated that requires endless GPU time. A local, adaptive and generative AI is built into the Krita graphics editor, which requires even more GPU power. The alternative is to buy GPU power on the Internet, but your image data will be taken by the provider. I want to say that it is not yet possible to predict what performance might be required in the next 2-3 years.

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@John-M the i7 147’s have meltdown issue’s reported.
Instability problems.

My goal is 7900 ryzen (much less power consumtion then the i7’s en slidgly less preformens too.
I have a certain built your own list which is about the same euro’s.
I will post this this evening at home.

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From what I’ve read, those issues are related to custom set-ups - where systems have component mismatches (such as using 6400mhz RAM, when i7 can handle 5600mhz max).

I wouldn’t expect there to be problems with a configuration that’s put together by Dell … and, if there were then Dell’s “fix it” policy would handle that.

Or … am I being naive (again!) ?

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I used to use dell before before its takeover by Chinese companies and I had no problem with them.
I generally took 3 years 24 h on-site guarantee and it was serious.

Now I’ve just look at some stations of the same kind I would have bought at those times, and I found a very intriguing clue : a reparability index. And for the station I simulate, I have an index of 6,9/10.
One page gives some indication of this index, and it seems that some spare parts are difficult to obtain.
I don’t know if this index appears in all countries, or if it’s required by some local laws, but I think it’s worth looking into before buying a machine that’s likely to heat up.

Anyway this index seems to be a sign of transparency.

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I like the custom-configured one that you posted.

I have never liked brand name desktop PCs: usually they come with very inferior cases and ventilaton (the BeQuiet case is certainly a much better one), they somehow limit expandability/additions in the future, and they come with pre-installed bloatware.

And I have often found better and faster technical service from local stores and their own builds, than by megabrands and their labs (where for even simple repairs they take 2 months).

Just consider a better/more powerful power supply than the one you listed (maybe a Seasonic 750 or 1000 W) and you should be fine.

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I don’t think your naive.
Dell is as company relayable partner for other company’s so i think they threet there customers with respect.

Disclosure, this thread was in the wind for aproval for 22! Day’s.
(i wrote this start almost a month ago.)
Don’t know why it was hanging in the wind for aproval you never get a answer from the staff about that,

That Dell you pointed to is indeed in the ballpark of what i aim for.

My select your own components and we build it for you is about the same price.

Antec p101 silent midtower
Thermaltake toughpower gf a3 gold 650w (could be cheaper if needed.)
Scythe mugen 6 cpu cooler
Amd ryzen 9 7900
Asus prime b650-plus mb
Asus dual geforce rtx 4060 evo oc edition 8gb
Kingston fury renegate 1 Tb ssd
Kingston fury beast black 64gb 5600Mhz ddr5

This is about 1590 euro

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Just a curiosity… Why no traditional HDD for archiving?

On my PC I have 1 TB SSD for programs and files I am currently working on, plus 2x8 TB mechanical HDDs in RAID 1 mirroring for storage of images, movies, music.

Of course if you have an external NAS solution (HDD based), skip the question as it’s just as fine.

Oh, and I think that 64 GB is serious overkill for Photolab: never had any problems with 32 GB, it actually uses much less than that. 64 GB is needed only if you do heavy video editing. That might save some money (don’t skimp on the power supply, as it’s a key component for the life and stability of the whole PC!).

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I have a new 2Tb HDDin my old pc (because i didn’t trust the old not any more after 13year of use…and 8TB nass.
So that 2Tb i swap to the new desktop.
64Gb yes i suppose so. I am thinking maybe a 32Gb in the fastest range could be a better choice.

In my present desktop the 32Gb is max loaded to 27GB when it’s choked on it’s gpu and cpu. And Rammemory is one of the easiest upgrades in the future.

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Seasonic Focus GX-750 ATX 3.0 - Voeding

This could be nice.

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Yes, an excellent choice. Seasonic usually is the best brand for PSUs.

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@OXiDant Not this discussion again!?

To summarise my previous discussions with you when you were considering a 7900 .

The processor of my 5900X, AM4 rather than AM5, DDR4 rather than DDR5, PCie 4 rather than PCie 5, is “strangled” by the RTX 3060 (versus your proposed 4060), i.e. the processor cannot be fully utilised because the 3060 is a bottleneck.

The 7900 will be a bit faster than the 5900X and the 4060 a bit faster than the 3060 but the 4060 will still “strangle” the performance of the 7900!

In terms of prices for the components you roughly have in £ with a comparison in (…)

I started this list before you published you component list.

                            7900 (AM5)          5900X (AM4)
Processor passmark          48,831              39,131  (1.2478)
Single threading             4,151               3,469  (1.197)           
Processor                     £340                £229  (1.485)
Motherboard                   £255                £130  (1.962)
Memory (2 x 32GB)             £161                £113  (1.425)
NVME   2TB                    £290 (Lexar NM1090) £116 (Lexar NM790) (2.5)
Speed Max                   12,000MB/s         7,000(MB/S)      (1.714)

GPU                         RTX 4070  (£470) (190%)  RTX 4060   (£270) (1.741) (122%) (1.557)
                                                         4060Ti (£350) (1.296) (145%)(1.188)  (1.310)
                              190%                           122%                      (1.557)  145%     (1.310) (1.188)

The biggest potential jump in performance is the NVME with the Gen4 (which is in your component list) offering up to 7,000MB/s versus the PCie 5 offering up to 12,000MB/s (+ additional heat!?)

The AM5 motherboards have fewer restrictions on mixtures of components than the AM4 boards.

You just published your shopping list

Antec p101 silent midtower £115
Thermaltake toughpower gf a3 gold 650w (could be cheaper if needed.) £77
Scythe mugen 6 cpu cooler £58
Amd Ryzen 9 7900 £340
Asus prime b650-plus mb £192
Asus dual GeForce RTX 4060 evo oc edition 8gb
Kingston fury renegade 1 Tb SSD
Kingston fury beast black 64gb 5600Mhz ddr5

However, I have done some export tests on some images I took with my G9 yesterday when we took our two younger granddaughters over to Brighton and went round the Royal Pavilion, giving lots of high ISO images.

The results of my DP XD tests on System 1 (5900X + 3060), System 2 (i7 4790K + 2060) and System 3 (5600G _+ 2060) were as follows.

image
image1020×372 64.4 KB

but a run on System 1 with the images and exports located on a RamDisk gave

image
image1920×972 176 KB

So much for Ramdisk helping!?

In all tests I was using only two export copies in all tests and the 5900X in particular can handle 3 easily!

In fact the 5900X processor is hardly working at all

image
image1902×1040 201 KB

I believe the problem the 3060 is bottlenecking the system.

I favour the Seasonic 80 Gold Platinum power supplies and have two 550W currently and managed to locate a 650W which just arrived.

I will finish this later!

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Yes i know it’s not my fault…:grin:

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@OXiDant Of course it is!!

The gist of what I was writing, now disturbed by having to keep Granddaughters entertained is that my 5900X is overkill for PhotoLab but a nice machine to have!?

The 7900 you are proposing is even more powerful, harnessing all that power needs a better GPU than a 4060 and probably than a 4060Ti (the minimum I would consider you should purchase).

For me the ramdisk on DDR4 was a waste of time? DDR5 is faster but will you see any real improvement.

32GB is enough for PhotoLab but …

Having a Pcie4 NVME is wasting the one real advantage I see with an AM5 motherboard.

With the NVME avoid QLC.

Back to the grandkids or swapping power supplies or …

Arguably the reason we stick with PhotoLab

P1137215.RW2 (23.0 MB)
P1137215.RW2.dop (38.5 KB)

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:disappointed_relieved: you sound like my wife…

:yum:

The cpu overkill is for future purposes.
Write off of cpu’s to sell if you are upgrading are often steep. No one want’s to risk to buy a overheated/overclocked cpu in second hand market so even when your nice to the cpu and keep it normal it’s not a easy selling object.
i don’t have multiple units to migrate them.

Avoid qlt, ok check, (i had to search fot it but yes sounds reasonable.

I am now knee deep in old broken wall tiles but when i got some time to spare i will update my shopping list.
Bigger power supply 750watt.
Nvme tlc 1 Tb not the qlc.
32Gb fastest vs 64gb i have now , price check

Be carefull to be switch those tasks you could ending up swapping grandkids and entertaining your powersupplies…:grin:

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Found better suited hardware:

Samsung 990 Pro 1TB - SSD

1 TB - intern - M.2 2280 =>109,- the 2Tb is 175,- euro
-Seasonic Focus GX-750 ATX 3.0 124,00/ Thermaltake Toughpower GF3 850W Gold 125,-

Ram:

Kingston FURY Beast Black

DDR5 - 32 GB: 2 x 16 GB - 288-PIN - 6000 MHz / PC5-48000 - CL36 - 1.35V - XMP 3.0 - AMD EXPO - On-die ECC - zwart

110,95
(64Gb = 215,05) if i need 64Gb i can stick more in afterwards

Pure hardware: 1360,85 euro
win 11 home
assembly
1580,-
not cheap but within my budget.

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@OXiDant The move to a 650W power supply was not for any reason except that I couldn’t locate a Seasonic Focus Platinum 550W!? They appear to have vanished from the market and may well be followed by the 650, 750 and 1,000W to be replaced by a new product line.

The 4070 might require more power than my 2060s and 3060 but power requirements in general are declining and PhotoLab does not take huge amounts of power continuously only when it is stopping the CPU from getting on with the main job of applying the edits to undertake noise reduction with the GPU!?

While I take your point about the CPU I have bought second hand CPUs in the past and they are still running fine!

I currently feel that the 5900X was a good “investment” and yields good results but the 5900X cost over twice the 5600G and is roughly twice as powerful for multi-threading but that does not result in a doubling of the export throughput.

In addition the 5600G with the 2060 shows the 2060 “strangling” the performance of the 5600G so the 5600G is yielding an improvement of only 10% over the i7-4790K when it is over twice as powerful in multi-threading!!.

Both the machines that got a power supply upgrade appear to be running O.K. The 650W swap into the 5900X was relatively easy because the cables stayed in place and were then plugged into the new power supply. The 5600G was a partial strip down to remove the old power supply and cables and install the 550W Seasonic from the 5900X.

Looking at my figures indicates that the upgrade to the 4060Ti doesn’t represent excellent value for money but is only a little more than I paid for the 3060 about 18 months ago and would give a 45% increase in graphics power over the 3060 I used in the tests above and 23% increase over the 4060 but at a cost of £80 more .

It should help reduce the bottleneck caused by the GPU, i.e. it might be worth considering in preference to the 4060.

Stretching to the 4070 would give a 90% improvement over the 3060 but “only” an additional 45% over the 4060Ti and at £470 is harder to justify.

I chose to rebuild my 5600G rather than upgrading the graphics card but the 5600G performance with a second-hand 2060 is a little disappointing and got even more expensive when I felt I needed to quieten it down a bit by moving to a Seasonic Focus Platinum power supply on that machine as well!

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I upgraded the PS on advise of @Lucabeer.
I need to do a calculation of powerconsumption of the setup in fullload in order to know it’s needed minimum wattage.

It’s not the buying it’s the selling for a good price i am worried about :wink:

my list now js about.
Best combination of key parts. Balanced and suited for long jse.
Ram memory has 4 slots to fill so 32Gb in 2 banks isn’t a problem.
And i think faster 32GB does more then slower 64GB most of the time.
(use rate of the banks js in lower part hoger then above 32Gb i think.)

Shoot, i have to go to work.

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BeQuiet has an excellent calculator for PSU sizing:

Take the value that comes out, add a 20% safety margin, and you are set!

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