A Fence in Miami Beach, in a local alley where nobody goes

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

Well, take the time to experiment with the fine contrast sliders to see what they do, not forgetting that they are cumulative so you can use the global to reinforce the highlight, mid-tone and shadow if necessary.

I took lots of time (but I didn’t realize they were cumulative). Will do so again next time. Clearview, within reason, does what I am trying to do. Thanks for the reminder - will try again next time.

@Joanna

ClearView Plus was designed to lift detail out of mist and haze, not as a general contrast enhancer, even though many “perverted” it before micro-contrast and fine contrast came along.

I thought you were mostly opposed to “Micro-contrast” also? Was I wrong?

@Joanna

Nothing can beat creating and framing the shot in the camera.
Rather than being lazy and shooting the “whole thing”, take time in the field and work out what you want to “focalise” on and then shooting only that. If you are attracted to a knot in the wood, fill the frame with that, taken at whatever angle you feel right. See my second extract from your image, where I deliberately skewed the lines of the planks to run diagonally.

Well, silly me, I had one track mind, shooting the fence. In retrospect, there were many other opportunities, as you have pointed out and demonstrated. You “see” better than I do, but on the next sunny day, I can try again. That shadow - yes, a different time of day might work better. I go there often enough, eventually I’ll get a better time.

@Joanna

Which is why I recommended that you got a battery grip for the D780.

Nikon doesn’t sell a grip like that. I could buy a D5 or D6, if I could afford it, but as you already pointed out, that’s not a good idea.

@Joanna

If you are using menus for day to day shooting on the D780,

I prefer to never have to go into the menu system while shooting.
Illustration - D780 (top) and D3

The D780 is much newer, has better specs, and is much smaller and lighter. I also prefer SD memory cards instead of Compact Flash cards.

Of course I am taking my D780 with me on my upcoming trip, not the D3.

[mwsilvers (Mark - New Jersey, USA)]

@mikemyers

Nikon doesn’t sell a grip like that. I could buy a D5 or D6, if I could afford it, but as you already pointed out, that’s not a good idea.

Yes they do, but it is fairly pricey. There are also several inexpensive 3rd party versions. The clones sell for a fraction of the price of the Nikon version. Some of the reasons the Nikon version costs so much more is because it is made from magnesium alloy, like you D780’s body, while the 3rd party clones are plastic and are more cheaply designed and built. If you want the real deal, it will cost you the better part of $400 USD.

Mark

[mikemyers]

Every time I’ve looked, it said not available. Regarding the above photo, that’s not a D780.

Why no true vertical grip option for the D780, Z6 and Z7 models?

[mwsilvers (Mark - New Jersey, USA)]

There are Nikon branded battery grips for the Z6II and Z7II but none for the D780. I saw one or two clones for the D780 but they may no longer be available. Regardless of whether you and @Joanna accept it, the DSLR is unfortunately headed irrevocably towards extinction. The flagship D850 is now 7 years old and the D6 is over 4 years old. Neither will be replaced by a newer mirrored model and F mount lenses are being discontinued. regularly.

Mark

[mikemyers]

@mwsilvers

Regardless of whether you and @Joanna accept it, the DSLR is unfortunately headed irrevocably towards extinction.

From a financial standpoint, not that long ago, people weren’t buying that many new cameras. Now, with the big name “mirrorless”, so many of the factories are turning out new products, and so many people are replacing their older camera gear with the new models. In another stroke of genius, the lens designs were also changed, so for the most part, people buying the new cameras are now also buying new lenses.

People just buy what’s new, but rarely consider the reasons for doing so, and consider not only what they’ve gained, but also what they’ve lost. Much earlier this year, I got to try out Nikon’s newest Z8 stuff, with a gazillion gimmicks all over the viewing screen. What it has lost though, is the Optical Viewfinder. I don’t want to watch a TV screen, I want a direct optical viewfinder to pay attention to the subject.

If I could afford it, I wouldn’t mind owning a Nikon Z9, especially with all the new software hacks that allow it to capture scenes (like lightning) that happened before pressing the shutter release. The Nikon D850 is probably as good as it gets - too bad a newer D880 never got released.

Me? I’ve now got three “mirrorless” cameras, my Leica M8.2, my Leica M10, and my Fuji X100F. All three give me the option of seeing a digital view, or an old-fashioned optical view, which is usually my choice. I wouldn’t trade my Nikon D780 for a new Z8 (but yeah, the Z9 has some fascinating features.

Joanna feels I am very foolish about this, but I am usually just as happy shooting my D3 as my D780 (although I know for a fact the D780 can create a technically better image). The D780 menu system goes on “forever”, while the D3 menus are much simpler.

@mwsilvers

The flagship D850 is now 7 years old and the D6 is over 4 years old. Neither will be replaced by a newer mirrored model and F mount lenses are being discontinued. regularly.

I’m not sure about the word “never”, but even so, there is a huge difference between the words “newer” and “better”. …but I accept that I am likely in the minority here.

Something is as true today, as it was in the past:

It’s not the camera, it’s the photographer!

[mikemyers]

Meanwhile, back at the fence…

@mwsilvers

Regardless of whether you and @Joanna accept it, the DSLR is unfortunately headed irrevocably towards extinction.

Well, by any reasonable evaluation, my old D3 is already extinct, having been replaced by the D4, D5, and D6. To me, that’s irrelevant - I still love that camera, and for many years, it remained my favorite camera - until I made the possibly foolish decision to replace it with a smaller and lighter D750, which also used SD memory cards, not Compact Flash. I gave it away to my brother, thinking I’d never use it again, but got it back, and it’s certainly one of my favorite cameras. Heck, perhaps it is ME that is now extinct?

I went back to my photos of the fence from a few days ago, and discovered that the lighting in my last photo had changed, and the ugly shadow of overhead wires was gone. Joanna, I tried again to use the Fine Contrast tools, not ClearView Plus - now that I understand the settings are cumulative. I’ll leave it for you to tell me if I was successful or not. But to really see this detail, it’s important to zoom into the image.

D3M_4322 | 2024-08-20.nef (13.1 MB)
D3M_4322 | 2024-08-20.nef.dop (13.8 KB)

I also tried warming up the photo, but my memory of the fence was that it is gray, not brown.

I left the trees and bushes alone.

Now that I know those boards have beautiful texture, if it’s not raining tomorrow, maybe I’ll go back and take photos showing off the grain.

@Joanna

Speechless. Maybe I’m not any good at this stuff any more. I never would have contemplated tilting an image like you did, but it certainly was effective. I just never “saw it” the way you did. One more thing I need to remember. I’m trying to get better at this, but I’ve got a very long way to go.

You have a way of making other people (me!!!) aware of things that they saw, but didn’t really SEE. Again, I will try to get better in the future.

[zkarj (macOS, PLe+FP+VP, Pentax)]

@herman

To quote a famous photographer:
“If your pictures aren’t good enough, you’re not close enough.”
Robert Capa

Like so many pithy quotes, it completely lacks context, and therefore meaning. A landscape photographer may vehemently disagree.

[George]

Robert Capa used a 50mm lens. That’s where the quote is based on. And he rarely shot landscapes.

George

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mwsilvers

Regardless of whether you and @Joanna accept it, the DSLR is unfortunately headed irrevocably towards extinction. The flagship D850 is now 7 years old and the D6 is over 4 years old. Neither will be replaced by a newer mirrored model and F mount lenses are being discontinued. regularly.

The concept of the DSLR may be headed for extinction but so has the concept of the LF view camera for many decades.

And yet, here I am with an Ebony SV45Te, which I doubt has taken more than around 1000 shots; and a 3 year old Nikon D850 which has barely taken around 3,000 shots; not to mention my 7 year old D810, which has taken around 16,000 shots. Since the estimated shutter life for the Nikons is around 200,000, I think I can safely say that I doubt if I’ll be exceeding that anytime soon.

The only reason I would consider “upgrading” would be if someone brought out a 5" x 4" 480Mpx digital camera.

I have all the lenses I am likely to need and, if I did want something special, there seems to be a burgeoning second hand market to tap into.

So, Mark, can you please explain why on earth I would throw away two perfectly serviceable cameras and half a dozen lenses, just because the “latest and greatest” models have hit the market?

[mikemyers]

@mwsilvers

Regardless of whether you and @Joanna accept it, the DSLR is unfortunately headed irrevocably towards extinction.

Having thought about this for a while, I guess I do accept it, just like film cameras heading the same.

People who are trading in their old photo gear to buy mirrorless will probably not see any change in their photographs, and may wonder if the expense was worth it. Meanwhile, the supply of used DSLR cameras is rapidly increasing, along with the prices decreasing. One example:
https://www.keh.com/shop/nikon-d850-digital-slr-camera-body-45-7-m-p-1.html

Many people will have a new and shiny toy that is smaller, and lighter than their previous camera, and an opportunity to buy new lenses. Assuming they want “the best”, even if they buy one used, here’s one example:
https://www.keh.com/shop/nikon-z-9-mirrorless-digital-fx-camera-body-black-45-7mp.html?rrec=true

As for extinction, Leica is still doing very well selling film cameras, even more “extinct”. They’ve even re-introduced cameras that they sold long ago.

One of the most desired cameras is the latest Fuji X-Series, with a very long waiting list from what I’ve read. It too, is a “mirrorless” camera, but unlike most of the others, it includes an optical viewfinder.
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67802637

The name of the game seems to be “follow the leader”. Those who are lucky enough to have already bought a Nikon D500 are likely to be smart enough to keep it, even if they do buy a newer camera.

But anyway, back to this thread. The photo up above was captured with my Nikon D3, which I bought in August, 2007. I doubt that the photo would look different had I taken it with the latest Nikon Z9. I’m not sure that it matters all that much. All the wonderful improvements in the Z9 also come at the loss of an optical viewfinder. The “computer screen replacement” in the Z9 might look wonderful, with a ton if technical information on the screen, but it’s still a “tv screen”. I suppose I could use a new Leica, and get the best of both worlds - if I could afford it.

[herman (Leica M9 | iPhone 15 Pro | iMac M1 | PL6, FP, VP | Photo Supreme)]

@mikemyers

The photo up above was captured with my Nikon D3

I would have believed you if you said it was captured with your iPhone……

[mikemyers]

@herman

I would have believed you if you said it was captured with your iPhone……

My iPhone photos also look great - until/unless I try to enlarge them too much.
Next time I go there, I’ll take a photo with my iPhone, for comparison.
Then I’ll crop, and compare with this:

I suspect my iPhone has a lot more than the 12 megapixels in my D3.
Who know, maybe the iPhone will be better?

[mwsilvers (Mark - New Jersey, USA)]

@Joanna

So, Mark, can you please explain why on earth I would throw away two perfectly serviceable cameras and half a dozen lenses, just because the “latest and greatest” models have hit the market

I never said you should change. Your D850 may well last you for the rest of your life. I would never suggest you move on to a mirrorless body unless it gave you some advantage over your current kit. All I was trying to express, after searching in vain for a battery grip for Mike’s D780, was that for lovers of DSLR cameras and lenses the options are continuing to diminish and the future is bleak. I am sorry if I made you think I was suggesting something different. I should have made it a more general statement rather then specifically mention you and Mike.

Mark

[herman (Leica M9 | iPhone 15 Pro | iMac M1 | PL6, FP, VP | Photo Supreme)]

@mikemyers

I suspect my iPhone has a lot more than the 12 megapixels in my D3

If I am not mistaken you have an iPhone 11? That is 12 megapixels for the main camera.
It is plenty for moderate sized prints, but if you want to have large prints you may want to upgrade to a later model……

[Mike_Murphy_1948 (Michael Murphy)]

My reaction to your original shot is to wonder whether it would work as a kind of duotone or partial monochrome. I used to work with Bibble (that became AfterShot Pro) and one of their tricks was to allow you to pick one colour that you would not desaturate. All the rest went to monochrome.

I managed to perform a crude version of this trick in PL7. The original (full colour) shot shows a block of flats I rather admired on a recent trip to Portugal.

By selecting each of the colours in the HSV wheel - apart from the two shades of blue - and pulling the saturation back to zero, you get this result:

Seeing the monochrome version of your fence I admired the grain, but worried about the foliage and its shadows. Was thinking perhaps keep the green and overlay it on the monochrome. This is the point at which I have to own up to knowing less than zip about Photoshop. But I am sure something must be possible.

D6703905.ARW.dop (10.9 KB)

And eating my own dogfood, I have attached the original shot and the DOP.
D6703905.ARW (38.5 MB)

[mikemyers]

@Mike_Murphy_1948

My reaction to your original shot is to wonder whether it would work as a kind of duotone or partial monochrome.

You’ve got me curious - I will try this evening.

[mikemyers]

Nope, nothing I tried worked as expected, looking like an acceptable result. What worked the best is to drop the color completely:

I don’t know how to do what you suggested. Things went from bad to worse.

If it’s dry and sunny tomorrow, maybe I’ll start all over again.

[Mike_Murphy_1948 (Michael Murphy)]

Living in NW Italy, one forgets that rain can spoil a whole day of shooting! Looking at your original BW again, what confuses my eye is the tension between the green leaves and their shadow. Perhaps the flowers at the bottom of the frame, too.
So I just got out my cropping frame, and came up with this:

Now, as my French wife says “Des gouts et des couleurs …” - or “One man’s meat is another man’s poison”. So this is my one and only contribution to the cause of abstract art.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

If it’s dry and sunny tomorrow, maybe I’ll start all over again.

Just make sure you are closer, no, closer than that, no, closer than that. Can you still see the top and bottom of the fence? Then you are still not close enough.

Now, look for patterns in the knots or shadows, but do not include the plants or anything else that is not part of the physical fence. Turn the camera so it is not square. Work with diagonals.

@Mike_Murphy_1948

So I just got out my cropping frame, and came up with this:

So easy

[zkarj (macOS, PLe+FP+VP, Pentax)]

@mwsilvers

for lovers of DSLR cameras and lenses the options are continuing to diminish and the future is bleak

See also film cameras and music on vinyl. One could also argue that mirrorless cameras are a niche given the sheer numbers of people who just use their phone.