Is using the Curves tool to set the white point not a viable solution for you? Or is it just that you want the setting of white point to be more automatic? (I see that some are happy with the Curves approach, so am interested in knowing what might make it inadequate. Thanks.)
So its really a guessing game, with the white point and black point. I want a clear indication like in lightroom, why can’t DXO do the same?
Drag the corner points or change the values of the tone curve to avoid clipping…even though it only avoids clipping indication. If highlights are clipped in the original file, nothing can bring back any details in those clipped areas.
over/under indicators without tone curve changes
same with changed tone curve / W&B points
Not really for the black and white points. Just for anything in between these two 
The curves function does not adjust the white point. When highlights are overexposed, pulling the top right down just moves the blown highlights to the left. It does not smooth out the curve.
Reducing the exposure does recover blown highlights, where possible and so does reducing the contrast. However, adjusting the white point would be much more convenient. Even Canon’s free DPP software does that.
If the interest is to avoid clipping, there are quite a few options that are easy to use and work very well.
Generally speaking if I need to avoid clipping in blacks or highlights, the closest equivalent to black and white points you mentioned can be found not in Tone Curves, but in Smart Lighting. Simply use Smart Lighting either in “Uniform” mode that works most of the time, or switch to “spot weighted” and simply draw a rectangle selection with the tool over darkest and brightest areas of the image and dynamic range will be optimized, You can than adjust the size and position of the selection in the image or simply use intensity slider of the Smart Lighting tool to your taste. Its quick and easy and works I would argue better than black and or white point in Curves.
Here is a visual demo.
Here is an image with dark shadows and blown out bright sky. If I wanted to adjust the dnymic range to be more even in an image like this there are quite a few ways to do it quickly and easily.
Here is using Spot Weighted selections in Smart Lighting tool I mentioned.
Alternatively I would use quite useful and easy to use “selective tone” which is a lot like Levels or Curves but with sliders. In Lightroom think under the curves you have similar settings.
I use them all the time and quite frankly while Tone Curve exists in DXO I almost never use it to adjust tones, because there are so many easier to use tools, but curves can be useful if you use R,G,B individually for color correction of for example color tint in the shadows only or if you want a cross process creative effects.
You can always rely on Histogram with “clipping” warnings if you don’t trust your eyes, and it can be used to warn you of clipping both of tone and out of gamut colors.
Otherwise I would use either Smart Lighting which can also detect faces, very useful for portraits, or “selective tone” controls.
So you have quite a few options including exposure compensation that works almost identically like it does in most cameras.
A lot of this can be automated with presets, so that when you apply a preset to almost every scene it will give you excellent starting point or finished image. And if it needs little tweaking, there is plethora of tools to choose from.
Here is how much a preset I created for my photographs does for me, even with challenging images that are backlit. This preset is applied upon import, so its automatic.
I think its more a matter of personal preference than anything. Tonal adjustments with curves are there if you really need them, but curves implementation is pretty rudimentary compared to competition. However the other tools are quite powerful, intuitive for me at least, and they work great. Most can be automated and therefore I only use tool for creative color grading or correction of colors based on tonality, but I never use curves for tonal corrections alone. There is simply no need. Its only a preference of the user.
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I forgot to say that using “Smart Lighting” to get to a ballpark of dynamic range you want is quick, but if you need extra precision of particular tonal range, you can also than use “selective tone” controls to find the desired results. And if you can’t trust your eyes, watch the histogram. Quite powerful controls.
And off course if you need to adjust dynamic range only in one area you can use local adjustments such as control points to do that. There is rarely something in the image that cannot be brought under tonal control sort of speak, using these tools. Especially in combination with each other.
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A very informative post. Thank you:-)
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Great advice, Thanks!!!
This should go straight to the introduction/documentation/tutorials of PL!
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This is pure awesomeness. Have you made a video describing how this works with the results?
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I you mean myself, no I haven’t. There are so many little innovative features and ways to work with DXO that maybe I could in the future make a video, covering tips and tricks or something like that.
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@MSmithy @JoPoV Will the pair of you PLEASE stop this bickering, it is inappropriate for this forum.
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This is more of less the list yes. There are selective adjustments but they are… selective so we can leave them out of the list.
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exposure compensation is not something I personally often use, but I like that it works similar to how exposure compensation works in camera. By measuring the scene and protecting highlights. There are few mods of operation that can be adjusted. In most software exposure is just one slider, usually measured in stops, minus or plus values. Both can get the job done just fine. DXO simply adds a bit more automation.
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selective tone is similar to how other software works, Both Capture One and Lightroom have similar sliders. Very convenient way to work for me.
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Contrast has some extra ability that we normally don’t see, with not just ability to target granularity of the contrast but also tonal range where it is applied, Shadows, mid-tones and highlights. Its more of a creative tool than anything, but quite powerful.
Also there is auto button for micro contrast. Automatic mode takes into account the presence of faces in order to preserve them, and also takes into account digital noise so as to avoid accentuating it excessively. For JPEG images, automatic Microcontrast is limited to a value of +5.
Also, there is a nice set of default presets for HDR that take advantage of Contrast sliders to manipulate dynamic range, quite effectively. Its a clever approach. One can simply apply the default preset and see how it works on backlight or high dynmic range images. Just check which sliders were used after you apply it to reverse engineer it.
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tone curve is by far the least impressive and while it has rudimentary function, its far cry from what competition has, that is true. Although it does have useful gamma slider for boosting midtones, that is pretty much only advantage.
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smart lighting is similar to “Auto” button in Lightroom, but works a bit better in some more difficult cases and has those targets “spot weighted” and face detection for more precise control. Its nice that its automated so one can use it as a preset.
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There is also “Clear View” slider for tone and color. I use it often even when its not foggy. It adds nice punch to the image, but works differently than “Clarity” or similar sliders, since its more like Smart Lighting, aware of the tonality in the image. Usually I have my set to on, by default and lower value. Especially when shooting not portraits. Adds really more punch and dynmic range to the images.
You can add clear view, and micro contrast if you want, but those tools are more involved to enhance/lower details in my opininon, than to to tweak the whole image luminosity balance.
Of course, any tool non acting on hue only in non lab colorspace acts of course on luminosity, but it is not intended neither efficient for that.
One could say use contrast to saturate colors, which is tru but not the right tool for that.
Yes and no. Clear View is not just about contrast, it is more complex than that. You can also use DxO ClearView Plus on images that do not have atmospheric haze, for example to enhance the presence of a sky or landscape. Or boost roughness of a face. But the way it works, the algorithms are quite unique. Its hard to explain it unless I post a lot of images to illustrate, but its quite useful way to work with tone and color.
Microcontrast, yes you are correct is by itself mainly for well, increasing microcontrast. But DXO allows for six independent sliders to work with when it comes to contrast, this can create some interesting results. While it is mostly used for creative purpose and in conjunction with other sliders, it can be also used to adjust tonal range in a way that it I think not possible with say “selective tone”. E.G. Contrast slider affects the main bulk of the contrast in the image, so when you reduce it or increase it, its mimics the effect of typical “S-curve”. However, when using curves, no matter the application , problem is what do you do after S-Curve adjustment. You can make more points that you run into the limitations of curves, where you start to create unpleasent looking image, since the distance between tonal controls (points) in the curves are so close.
When using Contrast sliders you have more control, since you can target for example overall contrast with a “contrast” slider and than limit that effect only to specific tonal range, shadows, highlights or midtones and you also have microcontrast slider to compensate for some of the details you lose with big contrast adjustment. You cannot do this with tone curves. Its the nature of the tool, that DXO managed to improve by their sliders for these types of adjustments.
Here for example I have a backlight image.
I make me typical tonal range adjustments.
And lets say I want to give a bit more punch to the image in particular tonal range. I can pull the overall contrast slider to the negative value as far as it goes.
But I lose some of the punchiness of the midtones. So I can use microcontrast slider to compensate while leaving the overall contarst alone.
And if I wanted to tweak specific tonal range to get jut the effect I want, I can use the additional three sliders. Aggressiveness to the taste, I boosted it here to illustrate how it works.
And if that is too aggressive, fine contrast control can be also used.
And finally if I lose some texture in the shell that I would like to have, but the rest of the image is ok, I would use local adjustments, like control point and boost microcontrast as one of the sliders that is is avilable in local adjustments… only on the shell.
Now, other than maybe Davinci Resolve, although not entirely the same, I don’t know any other implimentation of curves in any application that can do this.
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Absolutely agree. If they keep this up DxO may decide to intervene. In extreme cases members of this forum have been kicked off as a result of inappropriate behavior. I would not like to see that happen to either of these posters.
Mark
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