Using the radar built into my Fuji, thinking of B&W

And why not? It’s not technically perfect, from a taking point of view, but the concept is a great idea for an abstract, which I know you said you used to have problems seeing.

You might like to “perfect” the framing and composition in the camera although, with all the distortion of the wide lens, that is going to mean shooting with enough room to correct perspective in post.

This is the kind of subject you need to observe over time and see how shadows and angles change. It is a simple subject but it is definitely not one to be taken simply :smiley:

You’ve got me wondering if when I go out for a walk, instead of taking my Fuji X100F with a fixed lens, I ought to consider taking one of my Nikon cameras (likely the D780), either with a zoom, or a fixed 50mm like what I grew up with.

Thanks to you, and several others here, my way of thinking has changed, to where it is always looking for, and sometimes finding, un-obvious b&w photos like this.

As a side question/topic, I was reading this article when I woke up this morning:
https://petapixel.com/2023/05/01/leica-m11-monochrom-review-worth-it-but-the-answer-isnt-black-or-white/
Interesting thoughts…

I thought it made for interesting reading, but because of past discussions here, while the Monochrom might get me sharper images, it loses the ability to use filters, for example, a red filter over my lens. I’ve learned that I’m way ahead of the game shooting in color, which will lead me to a B&W image in PhotoLab (or any other editor), giving me much more control over the final image, such as applying colored filters.

With my Fuji, I can view what my image will look like in the Acros Neon 100 film simulation. With my Nikon, that’s left for my imagination.

When you are taking photos with your D850, knowing they will be finished as B&W, what, if anything, do you do to get the best possible results? Any advice?

That’s what I always do with my 28-300 lens. Always ready for most eventualities.

Expensive thoughts for a camera with limited purpose.

Not at all. If it’s a monochrome only camera, you should be using coloured filters.

But, having the ability to shoot in colour and then choose the tonal balance in post is much more interesting.

That should be Neopan. But the problem is that the filter range is limited and PhotoLab allows you to adjust the intensity of the film emulation.

Look for patterns, contrasts, repeats, shapes, etc. and try to remember that some colours can come out as the same tone of grey (which is where PL comes in useful in being able to change filters in post)

Don’t be afraid of noonday sun - it can be a great friend - avoid dull grey days.

Try not to over-expose the highlights but make sure you place them at +1 to +2EV

In extreme contrast situations, spot meter for the highlights and the shadows and make sure the range doesn’t exceed 14 stops. If it does, better to block shadows than blow highlights

Take your time and, if necessary, wait for the right light.

How can one check for that?

Mike’s D780 can represent anything betweeon 0 and 15 thousand something values per sensel…which corresponds to 14 bit encoding :wink:

Take a spot reading of the brightest part of the subject, then add 13 stops and check that value against a spot reading of the darkest part of the subject. You can use an ND filter app on a phone if the brain can’t cope

Grrr… obviously, one of the many words that this forum software wants to change behind my back. Oh well, I missed it.

Joanna, how would a red filter work on a M11 Monochrom camera that doesn’t know what color anything is? Wouldn’t any color filter just work as a “neutral density” filter, making the entire image that much darker?

The same way it works on B&W film.

It’s all about knowing complementary colours and you need to know the filter factor to adjust the exposure.

I watched this video, which showed what I expect it to show, until it got 8 minutes into the video, using a color filter on a color camera.

I know what you mean, and I think I understand what you’ve written, but are you suggesting a red filter on a color camera will have an effect similar to using the red filter in PhotoLab?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNTNuivSwVg

I also watched this video, and decided (again) that I have no need for a Monochrom camera:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWMfLfhZqxc

Bottom line, I plan to use electronic filters in PhotoLab, and other software that supports them.

I now think I understand what you wrote better than before.

yes, and most cameras record RAW files with 14 bits minus a black value of about 1024 (Nikon D780). If an image spans 14 bits and more, some of it will either be blown or swamped in noise and you’d need to bring in some lights (or bracket exposure) to brighten the shadows, if you wanted or needed them to be usable.

Ordinary people could do with chimping :wink:

No, not at all.

Here is an image taken on a colour camera, with a physical red filter…

Opening that in PL and adding the Fuji Acros 100 emulation gives this…

… because everything that was actually white was recorded as red. This then translates to grey when converted to B&W, but there are no true whites.

Taking the same image on a colour camera, without a filter gives…

Then adding the Fuji Acros 100 emulation and a red filter in PL gives…

See how the whites have remained white and all the intermediate tones are beautifully rendered as tones of grey. Even the rocks, which are reddish, have more contrast and texture.

Understood, your demonstration makes it obvious.

Mike, I don’t think it’s a matter of liking or disliking your posts. I feel it’s more a matter that I (and possibly others) feel that your presence here tends to get a bit overbearing at times.

For example, I look forward to the weekly email reminder of what the DxO forum calls “Popular Topics”; the one I just got lists five topics, four of which were started by you. In the first one of these, you posted 21 fairly long messages (in addition to the original post about removing the limitation of not opening photos taken by unknown cameras). In the second one, about the fence in Miami, you also posted 16 messages (in addition to the original post). I could go on but I think you get the idea.

I don’t want to ignore your posts; on the other hand, I have limited time to devote to the DxO forum (the only time I’m ever there is when I get the email reminder), and so more variety in terms of posters and topic starters would be kind of nice. And yes, obviously I know you do don’t stop anyone from posting; that’s not the message I’m trying to convey here.

Of course, everyone has a right to express themselves as long as they are civil, something you always are. But I can’t help thinking that spending so much time here tends to monopolize the space and discourages others from posting, even though that may not be your intention at all.

Anyway, just my 2¢.

Two options - either I should post less, or everyone else should post more. The best option I can think of is I can start one new thread each month, and just add new photos on to that single thread. This is in addition to responding to other people in their own threads.

I wish more people in these forums were posting more of their own photos. I’m retired, so I have all the time I want to work at photography. I understand others might not have so much free time, and may not have the same “urge” to show their work to the community.

Regardless, I’ll start a single new thread for September, 2024, and that where any of my uploads will go. It will be less “overwhelming” and easier for people to ignore them, if they wish to. Please follow-up with a reply in a few weeks, if this “issue” is improved.

You might want to change your settings - I get emails any time somebody posts, and I check every day for what’s new. I don’t have enough time to respond to everything I’d like to respond to.

As I was reminded, the idea here was to post something, and get feedback. It’s not that I post “too much”, as I see it, it’s because other people don’t post often enough. Every day I try to go out with my camera, weather permitting, and try to do better than before, based in part on the earlier feedback.

How many days do you take photos, typically, during an average week? Being retired means I not only have more free time, but also less money. I don’t usually go out to take photos of “something”. Most of the time, I go out with an open mind, “hunting” for something unique, or new, or photogenic, or just plain interesting, at least to me.

How many photos have you posted here this past month? I tried to search for them, but couldn’t find anything. Maybe the ‘search’ function is confused…

Exactly zero, because I don’t come here to post photos. I have a website for that. I come here to learn about that pertain to DxO products and how to use them; sadly, there is less and less content of this nature. By the way, I’m retired, too, and I don’t have nearly as much free tine as you seem to have to devote to this (or any other) forum.

Everything I have learned about PhotoLab has come from either “Photo Joseph” and his webinars, or responses to my photos by some wonderful people in this forum who gladly offer their advice.

If you don’t mind the possibility of negative criticism (of which I received a LOT), you could try be posting one of your edited images, along with the original image and the “.dop” file.

When others seem to “dump on” me, I try to figure out why. I used to argue, but eventually I almost always found out what the other people were trying to tell me, and understood what they meant.

Nothing wrong with coming here to view, read, and enjoy, but one can think of this forum as a “free class on how to get the most out of DxO PhotoLab”, which can be a golden opportunity to learn how to improve

Me? I made every mistake “in the book” and found even new ways to make mistakes, but if you read here enough, you probably already know who the most helpful people are - if you’re looking for help, that is.

I don’t have an answer for that. For me, I mostly stopped watching television, (other than while having dinner), finding this and other forums far more interesting and productive than teevee. That, and any place I go, for whatever reason, I bring a camera and an “open mind”. It’s sort of like a “hunting expedition” in a way, and I hate to return home empty handed. But that’s just my opinion - I don’t want to be telling others what to do (but I love reading from others what I ought to do!!!).

There are two very different ways to go about these things. One way is to look for what is “wrong” in a captured image, and correct or enhance it as needed.

Another, which I use a lot, is to think of the image on my screen as if it was “modeling clay”, and manipulate it as needed to shape it in a way that I enjoy.

If I do the latter, for certain Joanna will write back about mistakes, where one setting is conflicting with a different setting.

It’s a choice between “seeing/reacting” and “modeling/manipulating”.

Depending on the image, I may use PhotoLab one way, looking for the better settings for many of the PhotoLab settings. The other may be to simply start making adjustment while watching the changes in the image on my screen, until I am satisfied.

I’m pretty sure several people here will recognize incorrect settings, and adjust them. That should lead to a good looking photo. But it ignores “emotion”.

I hope I can start with the biggest choices, then work my way down to the minor choices. Cropping (or not) is first on my list. Image manipulation (stretching, or compressing, or leveling) comes next, the goal being a pleasing composition. Then there is all the “fine tuning”. I don’t always do things in this order, but I usually try to.

I hate to admit it, but all the technical details Tracy has mentioned are usually irrelevant to me - I’ve got to work within the limitations of the original image, and try to improve that. But if I was in a studio, or had the opportunity, I would prefer to be able to change the camera settings to get the best possible end result once I start editing.

The single biggest thing I learned from @tvalleau in the recent discussions here, is what is really happening when I press the shutter release button. Now I understand what is really happening inside the camera.

The second biggest thing is that I need to do anything I can to get the best “starting point” before I start to edit later. Joanna has emphasized this over and over and over when it comes to exposure - if I have the time to do so, I’ve got to get that right BEFORE I capture an image.

My mind may be out in outer space as I’m shooting, but so much later on will be determined by exposure and image sharpness - along with depth of field, usually.

I suspect that Joanna (and Tracy) set everything up perfectly before capturing an image. I need to get better at this. Last night, my image was going away even as I was looking at it, so there was no time to “think”, only time to “do”. The result would depend on ether “skill” or on “luck”. I felt under pressure, because everything was changing so quickly.

And final thought, while I’d like to consider all my settings and think about what I’m doing in capturing an image, sometimes there is no “time” in which to do so properly, only enough time to try to make sure I’m not making obvious mistakes.

There is, of course, a third way. Get it as near perfect, framing, composition, luminosity, etc, in the camera? e.g. the shot, SOOC, no adjustments, just waiting for, as Cartier Bresson would say, “the decisive moment”…

Of course, just as every B&W photographer would do, then comes the perfection of preparing for the print…