Using PhotoLab 4 to process sunset photos

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

I think you ought to…

1. put what you know to the test with the D750
2. try the “hybrid” approach I just talked about with the Leica to the same test

So I expect to see two amazing, well exposed images here sometime tonight

I had about 45 minutes of bright sunlight with some fluffy white clouds and some rain clouds. I picked a view that would include lots of detail. I aligned the D750 as best I could on my good tripod, and took a photo at the camera’s recommended exposure of ISO 500, f/11, 1/1600 shutter, using 50mm lens. I look at it on my screen now, and I can’t see anything to edit or touch or modify.

I then did the same with the M10 Leica using ISO 400, f/11, 1/100th shutter, again with a 50mm lens. (Ignore the EXIF info that says f/9.5). I prefer the Leica shot a little more, as it looks slightly darker, with a little more contrast. Ignore the tiny part of my balcony railing at the lower right, which needs to be cropped out - I didn’t notice that.

I haven’t edited anything yet, so there are no .dop files.

_MJM9117 | 2021-10-04-Comparison - Nikon vs Leica.nef (30.9 MB)

L1003215 | 2021-10-04-Comparison - Nikon vs Leica.dng (28.8 MB)

I didn’t like using “Live View” on either camera, as it was too hard to read the screen.

I don’t know the right words to describe it, but at 100% in the center and corners, the Nikon with 50mm lens is doing"something" to try to make it look sharper. The Voigtlander lens looks like it is just naturally sharper. I like both images, but I like the Voigtlander image a little bit more. Also, maybe the Nikon lens is really 51mm, or the Voigtlander is really 49mm, but at the left side of the screen the Voigtlander covers more than the Nikon, while both look the same at the right.

I turned on the histogram warning lights. I don’t see any warnings from the Nikon image, but the top of the building looks a little “burnt out” to my eyes. Meanwhile, I do get warning lights at the bottom of the Leica image in the center of the image in the trees, and the white picket fencing below the trees. …but in a question for Joanna, were I to change the exposure to correct that, I’d lose the details in the top of the building.

For anyone buying a camera tomorrow, the Voigtlander lens is $1,000, a Leica lens would be 9 times that, and a Nikon 50 would be 1/4 as much. For the M10, the cost is around $6000 or so, while a Nikon D750 or even the new D850 would be around less than half of that. The newest M11 Leica? I won’t be able to count that high! Both my cameras are “24 megapixel”, while the new M11 is expected to be 50 or 55…

Nikon:

Leica:

I think part of my task was to use the best exposure I could to get the best images. My problem is other than adding my watermark, and making the Nikon image just slightly darker, there’s nothing left for me to do in PL4…

[Wolfgang ([ Win10, PL+VP+FP, Nik6 (+3) ])]

From the Metadata, the pics look like taken at different time, but definetly in different lighting.
Apart from the heavy vignetting with the Voigtlander lens, both look good (sharp, no CA).
The colour rendering is different, which is normal between cameras and lenses from different makers.

---

Have a nice trip and see you in a week.

[mikemyers]

@Wolfgang

From the Metadata, the pics look like taken at different time, but definetly in different lighting.
Apart from the heavy vignetting with the Voigtlander lens,

You’re right, they were taken at different times, as after I took the Nikon shot the clouds blocked the sun, so I went back to preparing breakfast until the clouds moved out of the way, so I could take the Leica shot. Lighting is similar, but not identical.

After loading the image into PL4, and doing nothing more, the vignetting setting for the Nikon was this:

I just now opened the Leica shot, without checking or changing anything, and when I looked just now, I found this for vignetting:

The Leica image looks best with vignetting turned off.

So, my question to you is how to tell vignetting to stay off unless when/if either I turn it on, or the optical corrections turns it on? I would prefer that to be the default setting, so it only is turned on when the optical adjustments from the camera, or I, turn it on. I have vignetting set this way now:

Maybe I should save the workspace with Vignetting turned off, and use that for my Leica images? When I load Nikon images, the optics module will load the appropriate vignetting, and when I load the Leica images, vignetting will be switched off. Is this the solution? I’ll test this. …works! New Workspace no longer turns on Vignetting unless it’s changed by the Optics Module!

[nwboater (Rod Mell Win10, PL6, VP, FP, NIK 5, Canon)]

@George

In M the exposure isn’t changed but the offset in the viewer is changed. So you’ve to adjust that too to get the right exposure. In the other modes the exposure is changed.

Hi George. Thanks, and that’s the only thing I could figure out to do yesterday to get it to work. And it did work fine.

[nwboater (Rod Mell Win10, PL6, VP, FP, NIK 5, Canon)]

@Joanna

I downloaded the manual for the M50 and it seems very much like an idiot guide than a proper manual, with everything based around using P mode. Despite this, I feel sure that it should be possible to set exposure compensation in M mode, but you might need to play around a bit and, possibly use the menus rather than any of the buttons on the back.

I’ve just been on the Canon Knowledge Base site and, from what I can gather, you might need to set the exposure meter pointer deliberately off the centre mark to “force” over-exposure instead of using any kind of compensation buttons, but I could well be wrong on this.

Joanna - Thanks a bunch for looking at the “Idiot Guide” to try to help me. (I do agree with your sentiments on it!) I think you figured it out as did George in a couple of the helpful posts he made.

It worked fine for me yesterday and I did post about it somewhere in this wonderful long thread.

I must thank you again for opening my eyes to a new (to me) and very useful technique; ETTR.

[mikemyers]

@Wolfgang

Have a nice trip and see you in a week.

Hi and thank you! I won’t have a good internet connection up there. I’ll try to sign in, but I may or may not be able to upload.

Joanna will probably be able to get more sleep!

[Wolfgang ([ Win10, PL+VP+FP, Nik6 (+3) ])]

@mikemyers
I thought you’ve been taken off already.

When you are back … take some pics of evenly lit areas like a wall and as well something at close(r) distance (wall, cardboard …). – In Pl4, start with vignetting off, make some virtual copies and try different settings for vignetting (and take notes), where you later can choose from. I suppose, that’s more reliable than from landscape images.

[uncoy (Alec Kinnear)]

@mikemyers

My “cure” for the light tripod was to hold the camera in my hands, and rest my hands on the tripod. That worked best.

If you want to take first-class evening landscapes and are not willing to learn to use a tripod properly or carry a decent one (the decent ones which are light cost some money, less than most lenses though), you will get corresponding results.

It’s like claiming to want to look like Arnold Schwarzenegger in his Mr Universe days and continuing to eat donuts. Speaking of which, time to be stricter about my own diet.

[mikemyers]

@Wolfgang

I suppose, that’s more reliable than from landscape images.

My previous images were my fault - I thought I had vignetting turned off, but it came back on the next image. So, I turned it off, and saved a new Workspace with it off. I shut down PL4 and restarted, and vignetting was still off, so I think I have that problem cured - but that’s what I thought last time.

Apparently, if I change settings from whatever PL4 has selected when it first starts, to make these changes permanently, I need to make the changes, then create a new Workspace.

I’m leaving in two hours, but I will try what you suggested anyway, to prove to myself that vignetting with the 50 Voigtlander has been eliminated. Yes, a uniform wall will be better. And I don’t remember ever reading that if I don’t like something PL4 is doing, I need to set it properly, then save a new Workspace, to replace the Workspace I used previously. I wish I had been aware of that weeks ago, but it’s OK - I keep learning new “tricks”.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

So, I turned it off, and saved a new Workspace with it off

Workspaces are not the answer. All they do is save the layout of panels and tools, not which ones were active.

You are seeing Vignetting because it is part of the default optical corrections preset. If you don’t want it on when you first open your Leica shots, you are going to have to go into preferences and change the default preset for RAW files to one that doesn’t turn it on, like the no corrections preset. But then you’ll need to change it back before you open any new Nikon shots in PL.

[Wolfgang ([ Win10, PL+VP+FP, Nik6 (+3) ])]

@Joanna, @mikemyers, I tried the following.

With PL4 closed, I started a new folder and copied a file taken with the Voigtlander 50mm (= L1003207 2021-10-03-Miami Sunrise.dng) into this new folder and opened PL4.

As I always have set my preferences to “1 - DxO Standard”,

• it also applied the lens corrections to the file,
  hence the activated vignetting correction
  
  but it didn’t do any ‘harm’, because there was no more profile.
  *–> “I forgot to mention, that I erased the profile for the
  Leica M10 + Leica APO-Summicron-M 50mm f/2 ASPH,
  to avoid any trouble.” (from post #135)

• Then I manually applied the preset “5 - No correction”,
  which turned the Vignetting correction OFF,
  
  without negative effect, like before.

I’m sure, that will work when the general preset is set to “2 - DxO Optical Corrections only”.

---

@mikemyers
Without an interfering ‘wrong’ lens profile one can start to find out, which manual Vignetting correction setting is needed … → Using PhotoLab 4 to process sunset photos - #190 by Wolfgang

[mikemyers]

@uncoy

the decent ones which are light cost some money,

What are some examples of high quality but not too heavy “travel tripods”, which I accept will be expensive?

[platypus (Canon & Mac (Intel and M1))]

@mikemyers

What are some examples of high quality but not too heavy “travel tripods”, which I accept will be expensive?

Check out this article on dpreview:

Tested: Four travel tripods for every budget

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

Following on talking about sunset images, I just thought I would share how to make a night-time street scene with bright street lights.

I cannot claim the credit for the image, that belongs to my friend Helen and here is how she edited it…

The shot was taken 2.5s @ f/10, 100 ISO, spot metering for the bulbs in the street lights and compensating by +2 stops.

Helen wanted the lights to be just starting to blow but I have “optimised” it to demonstrate both how the correct exposure can even bring out the bulbs in the streetlights; and also to show how it is possible to choose different colour balance options after the fact.

First, as taken at WB 5600°K…

Second, adjusted to 2000°K +166 green/magenta, using the pipette on the wall next to the right-most streetlight, but not in the lit part. This approximates most to the colour of the wall in daylight.

Lastly, adjusted to 2664°K -66 green/magenta, using the pipette on the bulb of the right-most streetlight

[mikemyers]

@platypus

Check out this article on dpreview:

When I get home, I need to do some more searching. No hurry. Thanks for posting, but based on this review, I’d probably be spending $600 or so.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

I’d probably be spending $600 or so

If you meant the Gitzo, I would say you stand a fair chance of being satisfied. I have a Gitzo 2530LVL with only three sections, which makes it inherently more stable. From what I can remember, the equivalent four section model is relatively stable but I would highly recommend you “feel” one in the flesh before splashing the cash, just to satisfy yourself.

The three section models are not that much longer that the four section, but are way smaller than your present “monster” and may be a possible compromise to give you that extra stability.

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

Following on talking about sunset images, I just thought I would share how to make a night-time street scene with bright street lights.

I’m not sure what to say - need to try this. But I think the top image is great, and I think your top image at 5600K looks good, but I think I like the top image more. I don’t like the image adjusted to 2000K. I suspect the bottom image may be the most accurate, but I really enjoy the image on top. (I’m also viewing these on a 13" MacBook, not my 27" High Tech Display.

Bottom image is nice, but top image is nicer.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

Bottom image is nice, but top image is nicer

As long as you like the very first one, that’s all that matters. I will pass that on the Helen. The others were only meant for ideas and to show it is possible to photograph street lights with blowing the highlights.

Try zooming in the the right street light in the last one to see just how clear the bulb is within the lamp.

[Wolfgang ([ Win10, PL+VP+FP, Nik6 (+3) ])]

@mikemyers

… based on this review, I’d probably be spending $600 or so.

Mike, they are ment for travelling.

I’m not keeping you back to spend money on stuff you ‘enjoy’, but don’t you have an old heavy one for your balcony shots, to put your cam on and when you are finished you just take the whole thing inside … just asking

[George]

Or a bag with beans or rice.

George