Could someone share with me your settings for Fuji RAFs? I have used DXO for years and years with my Sony raws and love it, but with my Fuji RAFs from my X-H1 and X-T1 I can not match the detail extracted by either LR (using Enhance details) or Capture One. I am turning noise reduction OFF in PL as I do not need any on the ISO200 shots I am testing but is this my error? If I turn on DEEP PRIME does it do an entirely different kind of demosaicing that is better than turning off all NR in PL5 ? I am on the latest Windows version of PL5 by the way. I have tried it at defaults, tried cranking the lens correction but with my Sony raws I don’t need to crank sharpening. I started a thread on dpreview with some examples and will post my raw later today but if anyone can help me figure out how to get the most out of my Fuji RAF that would be great. Link to dpreview thread below. And p.s. - finding more magenta in skies in PL compared to LR or C1 and I think more magenta than in the OOC JPEG ?
Do you have FilmPack included in PL? This gives the amazing fine contrast tools for: global, highlights, mid-tones and shadows.
Andin yes you should leave DeepPRIME on, no matter what the ISO. It helps reduce shadow noise, especially in HDR-style shots.
I don’t use Fuji but I have C1 and used LR before.
In my opinion you should be using DeepPrime at a low setting for low ISO shots eg 10. There is noise in low ISO shots just not too much, but DXO is different to LR and C1 in that it applies noise reduction on the raw data which is why it is more effective than C1 or LR and is also the reason DeepPrime can’t be used on RGB images like jpg, Tif, or linear dng.
If you are interested in the finest details then the small amount of noise matters and DeepPrime will deal with it and help the final result.
By turning off DeepPrime it is like someone saying to you that they are not getting good results from LR but are not using Enhance Details. You would reply, well use Enhance details
It is important to use each program as it is designed to use and you can’t simply turn off controls and then be surprised by sub optimal results.
You also need to use the Lens Sharpness panel and adjust to give the best result. All programs apply different amounts of default sharpness and you need to apply the correct amount for DXO for you and your images. Sharpness and detail are like 2 sides of the same coin.
Remember that Lens sharpness applies a variable amount of sharpness across the frame to match the lens characteristics when they measured them in their optical labs. There are controls in the lens sharpness panel to adjust for individual lens variation and the confusingly labelled bokeh setting is actually there to prevent sharpening of out of focus areas.
Yes I have filmpack @Joanna - thanks for the advice
@IanS - thanks. I am a DXO veteran - I used to own optics Pro, so I am familiar with using it, but previously used it with Sony raws as support for Fuji is quite recent. But I’m not sure about what you say regarding DEEP PRIME - I don’t use it on Sony low ISO and they come out great from PL5 - plenty of detail. So why would I have to use it on low ISO Fuji raws? I know how great the NR is from DEEP PRIME as I have used it extensively on high ISO images. But really, you are suggesting everyone uses DEEP PRIME on every single image? I mean I will try it and see if it makes a difference in terms of detail/resolution, but it is not my usual workflow in DXO.
Marco, also don’t forget Fuji support is still in Beta. I know it doesn#t solve your immediate problem but it helps to be aware of it.
@Sigi DXO told me on facebook it is now out of beta
Ahh, that is news to me.
You don’t have to use it. The point is that DeepPRIME does more than de-noise high ISO images. Its effect on low ISO images might not always be obvious but it doesn’t do any harm.
Personally, I always use it, whatever the ISO - just to make sure I am getting the bast possible results from RAW files.
Like I said it can be subtle. But then I am used to printing my images up to 1.6m, so need all the help I can get.
If you remember DXO could not support Fuji until DeepPrime, so DeepPrime is more relevant for Fuji than other formats.
I always use DeepPrime and I think many users do if their computers, or more correctly, GPU are good enough.
So. I’m anything but a DxO veteran and only came back once they started to support Fuji so…
Starting with the obvious. Are you viewing at 75% or more?
I believe and have no reason to doubt based on observations that sharpening etc isn’t shown properly below these levels.
I was using just PL5 alone for a bit and at first was somewhat disappointed with certain shots being overly sharp and ‘wormy’.
Turning down the default sharpening worked wonders in those case and brought the image in-line with C1 (no longer use) and LR.
I use DP on everything regardless of ISO and don’t feel or observe any penalty for doing so although happy to be corrected advised otherwise!
Although I should probably start experimenting with different levels.
Currently however I’m dipping back into LR more as I just find myself more comfortable and happy with results.
However I am still sending my RAFs to PL5 for correction and some slight editing (smart light /micro contrast and DP) before back to LR for further editing.
I never feel the need to touch sharpening (beyond screen on export or very occasionally a touch of local) in LR after the PL round trip.
Other than sharpening adjustments if I feel needed I leave everything else alone that is auto applied in PL.
I have just recently started to play with Enhanced Details (I forgot all about it!) and with a recent shot I enhanced before sending to PL5 and then back the results I felt were fantastic. For some reason that one exported badly to jpeg so I need to figure out what has happened but on screen at least in LR/PL5 it looks great.
Will try without the Enhanced Details in case that’s causing something to go wrong as no issues previously.
Not sure tbh what all that adds beyond no issues here and definitely don’t discount DeepPrime.
Here’s a shot of mine that went LR>PL5>LR (not enhanced). I feel this is more than sharp enough (hopefully the forum doesn’t mess with quality).
Only sharpening was done by PL5 beyond the export screen sharpening which if I’d stayed inside PL would also have been dealt with by PL. All other sharpening turned of in LR.
Definitely turn DP on and experiment more.
I’ve been playing around with more of my Fuji RAF files in PL5 and my conclusion is that you need to turn up the detail slider a bit from default in order to get the most out of them. I am still finding that the PL5 rendering has a bit more magenta than the same image processed in LR or C1. Perhaps DXO will tweak the colours a bit in the future as I think LR and C1 are closer to the out of camera JPEG when you shoot raw+JPEG
Ah, but that depends on the in-camera settings the you choose for the JPEG that accompanies the RAW.
To the best of my knowledge, there should be at least 7 to choose from.
@Joanna sure what I mean here is this - when selecting the same Fuji in-camera film sim within LR, C1 and PL5, the colours in LR and C1 look pretty much the same whereas in PL they look more magenta. So if I select Fuji Velvia in each raw processor for example, especially skies will be more magenta in PL.
Wonder if it’s a lens combo thing. What are you shooting with?
I honestly find with the XT-4 and either 18-55 or 55-200 that it needs turning down not up.
Although you may of course just want more than what I deem acceptable!
Like I said. The picture I posted was untouched beyond defaults applied and screen sharpening.
Do you consider that picture to be lacking in detail?
To me if I’d have turned it up I feel it would have looked over cooked.
In fairness though it depends what you are actually shooting.
I feel feathers/fur are very easy to overdo and ruin so exercise caution more.
Can’t say I’ve noticed this. However my 55-200 tends to have a blue tint I’ve noticed so again maybe just a lens thing that PL5 is dealing with differently. Easily fixed.
As for the sims I don’t really use them but agree when they initially load I do feel they look a little ‘better’ in LR than PL5. Not enough however that I wouldn’t choose to use them in PL5 and without the benefit of having LR I wouldn’t really notice anyway.
Just a few words to stress, once again, that DeepPRIME does 2 things: Demosaicing & Denoising.
Considering DP a denoise-only technology, is missing half of the story.
Q: …what do we get, if we use DP and shift the sliders to the left?
A1: …a result that still looks less noisy than HD noise reduction set at default values?
A2: …a result with less demosaicing artefacts
I can definitely see different colours or WB…
Whilst this may be the case at the end of the day the misunderstanding will exist for most (and I include myself in that until your comment) when that is exactly what it is described as in the program.
‘DxO Denonising Technologies’
From a personal viewpoint I had noticed that more than just noise reduction appeared to be happening but hadn’t thought more about it.
Many of us, myself included, use DeepPRIME on virtually every image regardless of ISO, as suggested by DxO. I find that there are very few images that DeepPRIME does not improve.
As do I.
My only point was that until @StevenL stated DeepPrime does more than just Denoise due to the fact that it is largely touted to be the best denoise software and is described as such in the actual software then most will assume that’s all its is in fact doing.
Regardless. Whatever its doing works. That’s enough for me!