What ever the “cause” unless users csn use the same program for processing the drift away will just keep on. But the main thing is we basicly need DxO to alow DNG the same way you can use the program with jpg which you didnt used to be able to do. Its mad I can use a lower quality jpg in PL but a better DNG is blocked from the same degee of processing
I realise there is lot of speculation about that idea here on this forum but is there any actual evidence that users are moving away from DxO Products?
Only based on comments on number of phone forums from users of old PL saying they have moved onto other programs to just use one for everything
I also have seen comments on the Samsung user forum from members giving advice to queries on programs to use processing DNG which not surprisingly excluding PL as a program to use. This also regularly crops up in other forums including some where in some existing PL users are asking, but I think on they learn another program many will stay with the one for convenience and cost
But clearly the poor updates in 6 and 7 have I expect been a more major effect on the apparent desperate sales push by DxO. I have stayed using 6 and now do more proceeding in Affinity and though upgraded to 7 can see no reason to upgrade again if having to use 2 programs as I get to grips with Affinity. Its interesting that flicker a few months ago found phones were a very large proportion of its uploading now.
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who says that we all insist on having AI/ML based NR - how about just being able to open a simple raw file written by a smart phone’s OS in a well documented DNG format w/o any Ai/ML NR from DxO side at all ? some of them are even linear DNGs… DxO has no issues to open linear DNGs w/o any NR … DNG has no issues to open raw files w/o optics modules for given camera/lens combo and as for camera profiles - standard DNG requires camera profile (DCP) to be in and DxO claims that they can use DCP (granted with their usual portions of not following the standard, but still)
granted the effort requires to be able to fully support DNG standard and DxO so far can’t even do that
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The anti DNG stuff is amazing, DxO abandoned being just a RAW proceeding program when it launched in to hardware with the One. After the rebuilding, abandoned it again with the attempt of creating a DAM.
Over this time the world has changed, the point and shoot cameras, many of which also produced RAW files and were supported by DxO have died out. Many people carried them in there pocket as a camera to be available at any time (I did I know, Canon Powershots)) and have been replaced by the much improved camera hardware and software in mobile phones (computers!) that use not RAW but DNG as well as jpg. But because the format has changed the output, now mainly DNG as well as jpg, DxO has abandoned them.
Much as it would be nice to have the full use of PL with these DNG NO ONE has been asking for anything other than the same access to processing as jpgs currently have. But we are faced by other users doggedly repeating the same stuff about not being able to access the full RAW editing (not what’s been asked for) and the next thing is inability to use lens corrections, but they are mainly in the DNGs allready. Yes sometimes a DNG change happens, usually any problem is due to the program reading it not having been written correctly in the first place. LibRaw haven’t had to change there DNG support for years and FastRawViewer opened my Samsung 22 ultra DNG no problem. But Affinity had an initial problem with it as they hadn’t written the program right once that was sorted no problems. If DxO worked things correctly they should have no problems in allowing basic DNG processing in there products.
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Yes, moi for one.
I love PhotoLab, but I also love my iPhone.
Although I am a long time DxO user (when my memory serves me well since DxO Professional 3), I skipped DPL 7 just for this reason.
Maybe I will buy a license for some future version when it supports both iPhone DNG as well as HEIF files.
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On Mac best program for iPhone RAW Photos is Raw Power (available in Mac App Store).
Ditto the RAW Power app for iPhone and iPad. Great for global edits, with its ability to adjust ProRaw tone mapping perhaps the killer feature for me. Oh, and it will open Raw / DNG files (“real” raw or otherwise) from a huge number of smartphones, cameras, and scanners. Not bad for a 10 USD app!
Apologize a bit for adding to this seemingly never-ending series of threads. But there are options out there.
These totally miss the point of editing cameras and phones in the same program. I don’t think there is any shortage of programs to use its that DxO blocks them in there program’s pushing users into needing a second program away from DxO that is the problem
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Exactly this!
In the end you may find (as I do) that the “second program” works fine for the majority of work one has to do and that DxO is only used for fringe cases where the “second program” does not deliver.
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I’ve been making your point in this forum for several years now (you can check). But life is short, and I’ve moved on.
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In fact DxO PL has the capability to demosaic phone DNG files. It still supports older iPhones. Why doesn’t DxO keep up with the most posular iPhones and Samsung Galaxy phones ? DxO is lagging behind others, but should aim high.
See for erxample Halide presented with Apple ProRAW here :
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Did (do) those older phones use Apple ProRAW or what format did they use?
And isn’t demosaicing already applied to ProRAW? Which would mean there is nothing for PL to demosaic.
I am not knowledgeable about the ProRAW format, but from what I’ve just read it appears you are correct. Apple ProRAW files seem to already be demosaiced. If that is correct, even if DxO supported the format, it is unlikely that DeepPRIME and XD could be applied to ProRaw files because by design these AI based NR tools are integrated into the demosaicing process.
Mark
I don’t know the version of the dng specification used by these older iPhones, but they are correctly processed by Photolab.
It is equally important to understand that Photolab relies on a builtin list of supported phones and their raw formats.
The models supported are baked in the photolab application. For example, PL can process iPhone 8 Plus dng files, but not those from Samsung Galaxy series. With an easy manipulation, you can fool photolab into decoding some dng files produced by Samsung phones.
See this : While waiting for a smartphone/dng solution from DXO PL - #5 by Joachim
Why did editing some characters in EXIF work a few years ago but not with ProRAW now?
I have not tried feeding ProRAW iles to Photolab yet.
It is clear that without DxO support for ProRAW, or for any added feature in the latest dng specification, Photolab won’t be able to take advantage of it. – for example the scene-specific processing stored by an iPhone in ProRAW.
Perhaps this information will be of help to you:
And also:
As Alok Deshpande, Apple’s Senior Manager of Camera Software Engineering, explained, ProRaw “provides many of the benefits of our multi-frame image processing and computational photography, like Deep Fusion and Smart HDR, and combines them with the depth and flexibility of a raw format”.
above quote from: What is Apple ProRaw? The new iPhone 12 Pro photo format explained | TechRadar
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dng formats are used by manufacturers to implement diverse raw strategies ranging from un-demosaiced sensor data to demosaicked linear data.
The benefits of dng format over jpeg include the absence of jpg compression artifacts, more than 8-bit quantization, thus higher dynamic range, and sensor-specific color before balancing.
These dng capabilities already benefit other image editors, but DxO has not kept up with support for newer smartphones.
The discussion about classic camera raw files vs smartphone raw files misses the point that users do not care much about the technology itself; users want an easy workflow, using the tools they already use, with quality end results.
Thus reference might also be useful : Lightroom now supports Apple iPhone 13 ProRAW DNGs directly - Life after Photoshop
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Isn’t that exactly the point? The senior manager from Apple quoted above says that himself: ProRAW is the result something that Apple does with the iPhones actual RAW.
Consider this: Why can’t you work on InDesign files in PhotoShop? They are both some flat image file format. Or why can’t you simply open 3d scenes from Maya in Blender? They are after all both 3d scenes made up of vertices.
And why aren’t there any cars for me to drive around in Witcher like I can in GTA? The character can be controlled with keyboard and mouse in both games. Though here I suppose I could create a drivable car for Witcher - if I learned and put the effort into understanding how it works first.
jpg vs dng: Unless for web output for which I’d use jpg, I’d likely use 16-bit tif instead.
This definately applies to some user groups. I’m not interested in using Lightroom by the way, or an iPhone camera - unless I needed a hand held 3d scanner.