The same applies to the D850.
Excellent - a lot of what you describe is what I already know, but youâve got a lot more detail that I was not aware of. As for me, I was describing what I think I am now aware of, not in any way âmarketing infoâ. I had an almost two hour long discussion. with a technician at Nikon Tech Support an hour or two ago.
I wonât argue with anything youâve written, but any âtechnical lacksâ in rangefinder camera were made up for by the knowledge and experience of those photographers. As far as Iâm concerned, it is the âphotographerâ. who makes the photo, not âthe cameraâ.
From what youâve written, I think you know far more of the âbehind the scenesâ information than I do - so, if you are aware of what Nikon has done with the D780, maybe you can describe it in your words?
From what Iâve read, and been told, Nikon has taken the technical and mechanical components that are used in the Z6 mirrorless camera, and put all of this into the âLive Viewâ mode of the D780, without changing the way the camera works in the normal DSLR mode, which is essentially the same in most DSLR cameras, including the D780.
That last sentence is why I usually prefer DSLR - I prefer seeing things with my own eyes, not a television reproduction. The mirror is irrelevant. Whether or not this is relevant for anyone else, it is their choice to make. Rangefinder, SLR, and DSLR let you see the âliveâ image, as it happens. Mirrorless is an electronic playback. Itâs up to each photographer whether or not this matters.
Way too much here to respond, mostly from people who donât have access to a D780. A simple call to Nikon Tech Support will answer most of the questions.
Me? I have no idea how comfortable I may or may not be, until I try it. Also, why would I be using the touch screen at all? I expect to use the back button focus button, and the standard shutter release, same as always. Iâm curious how shooting with OVF (top viewing eyepiece) will compare with EVF (back screen). Lots of speculation here, but I wonder if anyone else is going to try it? My friend Ray is very happy shooting with his Z8 mirrorless Nikon.
EVF is not the back screen. Or am I missing something?
George
1 Like
For @Joanna - interesting reading here:
Nikon D780 vs D850 - Which Should You Buy?.
For your needs and purposes, the D850 obviously comes out on top.
For me, I feel the D780 matches my requirements.
Over the next two weeks, I hope to discover how well the new camera works for me, especially with regard to bird photography. And no, I do not have plans to buy a longer lens (yet). 300 + crop is the best Iâll be able to manage. Neither do I have any plans to buy a Z8, but Iâll get to see one this coming weekend.
The back screen is not an EVF, it is the same kind of âliveViewâ back screen as on any other DSLR All you need to do is just press the LV button. What are you expecting that is any different?
I meant, how would I do using the top eyepiece (OVF) compared to holding the camera out in front of me and using Live View, which is digital. Iâd like to try both.
I want to do both, and compare the results. I donât have any expectations yet. According to Nikon, one way is shooting as a DSLR, and the other is shooting as âZ6 Mirrorlessâ.
Ha! I wonât reply to this until I try both. I could speculate, but why?
Perhaps the best answer would be to buy a Z8.
Perhaps I should get a monopod?
Perhaps I should get one of those âstabilizerâ devices?
Most likely, Iâll do nothing, and just try out the two ideas this weekend, if we get to go as planned, and if itâs dry.
If anyone is curious, this is the email link Nikon just sent me:
The only worthwhile difference I can see is the D850 45Mpx and the D780 has 24Mpx.
What ânew cameraâ? Youâve had the D780 for some time now. And what is stopping you from turning on LV right now?
Well, stop writing and try it right now. There are no special settings.
Rubbish! Using the rear screen is shootng as with any other camera with a rear screen.
Well, go on then, try it. It shouldnât take you more than 5 minutes.
Why? When you have said many tiles, you donât like the idea of an EVF.
What for, when you can use one leg of your tripod?
But the lens already has vibration reduction.
You donât need to wait. Just do it now!
Weigh them both, and compare. I donât need or want a D850. Actually, I have no real plans to buy anything in the near future.
This coming weekend, for lots of stuff.
My plan for right now is dinner.
âUsingâ might be the same, but the Nikon technician told me otherwise.
Agreed. But I enjoy speculating, and Iâll get to try a Z8 this weekend, if all goes according to plan.
No, I should get off this silly computer, and go to my kitchen.
I hope to find out new things over this coming weekend.
There ainât no hurryâŚ
âŚand my tummy takes precedence over my photographic wonderings.
Besides, I have another photography test to do before I worry about this stuff.
Iâm talking about functionality and I never said you need a D850, or any other camera.
What?! This sounds like technobabble to me.
There are two possibilities with this one. You either misunderstood the points the Nikon Technician was making or the technician was incompetent. I am tending towards you misinterpreting what was said.
With LiveView the mirror is up and the camera uses the sensor for focusing. The D780 is just like every other Nikon DSLR body with LiveView in that respect. With mirrorless bodies there is no mirror and the LCD screen also focuses using the sensor. But there is nothing special about the D780 compared with the D850 with regard to LiveView. Mirrorless cameras also project a LiveView screen view in the EVF instead of an OVF with a pentaprism. Some people like that and others donât. The only time you should be using the D780âs LiveView to focus and capture an image is either on a tripod or when you canât frame the image properly using the OVF because your subject is near the ground or over your head.
Mark
And youâll find that 300mm is generally not enough to shoot birds (I mean not in zoo).
600mm is right.
There are techniques to learn to be stable and keep birds in frame more easily.
No.
If you really want good image (yes, good may be subjective ⌠but ⌠it is not when it is about sharpness) you have to get them sharp when shooting.
Which means, right depht of field, right focus distance, right shutter speed (which depend of subject motion, your ability to keep birds fixed in the frame when tracking, the use of tripod (adapted one - extremely stable - with good gimble head needed) or freehand); and some knowledge (gear and field) to get as few heat distortion as possible when using long lenses.
You wonât be able to correct out of focus image, motion blurred images nor heat/atmospheric distorsion with photolab. And even with softwares which pretend to do so (topaz), youâll never get an image as good as one really sharp when shooting.
Yes this happens when images are really sharp (good technique) and properly illuminated.
No. Lot of them do not use it. Photolab give a fast to get results with optics modules , but a good knowledge on how to manually sharpen those kind of subjects (there are several good tricks) is as good as or better than photolab.
Not at all.
You will never be able to shoot bird in flight with live view. No way to get good shots (to bad position to be stable).
If you want to shoot birds, Z8 (not Z6) camera will be a hudge improvment compare to dslr, IF youâre able to manage it for that. AF Z8 system outperform dslr AF but is trickier to manage the right way; some learning curve and practice is needed. Last firmware update in Z8 seems to put it above sony A1 for tracking birds in flight. IF youâre able to manage it.
And youâll get way better stabisation than dslr (ibis - camera stabilisation - combined to lens stabilisation - with compatible lenses); and lighter long focal lenses.
1 Like
Hereâs an explanation from DPReview of the âtechnobabbleâ.
I donât see the point in discussing this, until/unless one of you gets hold of a D780. The report from DPReview sounds very straight forward to me. Until a few days ago, I didnât know any of this. My specific reason for buying the D780 was 4K Video, for eye surgery video.
The Nikon Tech Support Technician told me something similar to the DPReview explanation. Whether or not I understood either of them correctly is irrelevant - what Iâm trying to say is posted in the DPReview article. If youâd like to believe that nothing has changed, despite that article, so be it.
As to the advice of how to hand-hold the camera, thanks for all the advice, but I want to find out for myself. I will mount the 300mm lens, and take photos both using the upper viewfinder, and the LiveView display, both hand held.
Good luck for birds in flight 
EDIT : but, there are birds in flight and birds in flight
1 Like
Mike:
Iâm not sure you fully understanding what these other posters are saying.
From D780 DPReview article you linked:
âThe D780 features a 24.5MP BSI-CMOS sensor - likely the same as in the Z6 - which features on-sensor phase detection. That means that in live view youâll get dramatically improved autofocus compared to previous Nikon DSLRs, plus face and eye detection. When shooting through the viewfinder youâll have a 51-point AF system backed with the higher-resolution metering sensor and algorithms from the D5.â
As others have said - bird photography is nigh impossible from a âLiveViewâ position. I can attest to that when trying to photograph dancing Sage Grouse at ground level. The camera was on a solid low slung tripod. The light was dim (dawn), and the dancing was rapid, but not zipping by. It was not a great success. I did much better sitting cross-legged on the frozen ground with the camera a bit higher while panning through the EVF.
So you have a choice - use the D780 in the traditional OVF and accept the âlimitationsâ of the excellent D5 focus system; or, rent a Z6 and shoot in a EVF using the on-senor PD focusing and eye detection.
Trying to shoot LV at the workshop is being stubborn. It will frustrate you as well as the leader and other participants.
Alternately, studio and still life photography are great genres for exploring LiveView. Here, the other special focusing methods you referenced in a separate link also come in handy. There were several examples upthread and you can explore it no matter the weather!
Once again - The Venn diagram overlap of LiveView and outdoor bird photography is miniscule.
1 Like
Impossible to take this shot with liveview. (this one is 300 mm- 600 mm would have be better - no need to crop and more feathers ).
1 Like
You are probably correct.
I called Nikon Tech Support about a separate question, and when that was resolved, I mentioned this discussion, what I posted, and the responses to what I wrote. The lady at Nikon said that what I posted is correct - the D780 is not like a D750 or D850, it has Nikonâs new mirrorless technology built in, when I select âLive Viewâ on the back of the camera.
Anyway, moving on, after discussing this with my friend, who will be using his Z8, I plan to shoot Sunday using the Optical viewfinder up on top.
- AF-C priority selection: Release
- Focus tracking with lock-on is set to 3.
- 3D-tracking face detection is OFF
- Auto-area AF fac/eye detection OFF
- Focus points used: ALL
- Store points by orientation OFF
- AF activation OFF.
- Focus point wrap-around OFF
- Focus point Options
Focus Point illumination: ON
Manual focus mode - ON
Dynamic area AF assist - ON - Low-light AF ON
I will try hand-held, but might try a monopod
This is. where we are going: