Part 2 - Off-Topic - advice, experiences, and examples for images being processed in DxO Photolab

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

The catch of the day, though, has to be this uncropped, full frame, barely retouched (apart from a tad of Topaz sharpening on the duck) image…

I was about to ask if any of you had tried bird photography, and understood what was involved, and what “birders” want to see - but Joanna, that last photo is awesome! Your other photo shows how difficult it can also be.

This is the website of Steve Perry, the fellow who has been the most help to me regarding bird photography:
https://www.youtube.com/@backcountrygallery

I’ve been reading his articles, and watching his YouTube videos.

At this moment in time, these are the kinds of photos I would like to capture, when I go bird watching - but there’s lots of other advice there as well. …and I also want to take good photos of birds that ARE artistic, and non-bird-fanatics will enjoy.

I plan to take photos that will “work” technically, and also take photos that I know I’m not (yet) prepared to take, just to get the practice, even if the photos are pixelated. Getting the timing right is a huge part of bird photography - along with steady hands, a decent exposure, a suitable shutter speed, and all the rest. It’s all wasted effort in one way, but it’s good practice until I can “fill the frame” with my 2,500mm super Nikkor lens that I can’t afford and will likely never buy, and which will be far too heavy for me, even on a monopod.

@Joanna

Well, you could have fooled me. That is a narrative that only you can know, but that the image certainly doesn’t convey. It’s just a bird with its leg in the air.

Yes, this is a problem in a way, as I also thought what you wrote, until Ray Schneider, a good friend of mine, explained what was going on in my photos. Posting that image here just shows what you wrote, but in the bird forums, chances are the other photographers either already know what’s going on, or soon will. Regarding my photo, I had no idea what or why the bird was doing, but it looked interesting, so I tried to capture an action photo that showed it. That night, I learned what it was about. (Ray goes “birding” several times a week, every week, when the weather is appropriate.)

To be honest, I don’t understand most of my photos, what the birds are doing, or why, or even what kinds of birds they are. I’m a beginner at this, and every time I do this, I learn more, mostly from feedback on my photos.

@Stenis

It was very obvious 10+ years had passed between these lenses. That Sigma had hard to focus in poor light at 500mm. It was much slower. Not really sharp fully open or at the long end.

Sigma has been making variations of this lens for years. Some are better than others. When I posted my test photos in the Sigma Lens forum, the comments were that I had a good one. Advantages - wide focal length range, only a little over 4 pounds, and I could afford it, and the optical stabilization means I can shoot it hand held. Supposedly. I think a monopod is a better idea though.

Regarding the lens that I bought, I need to call Sigma to learn about what “Bigma” I actually bought. I found a review that was close, but there were so many variations that I haven’t nailed down exactly what I have. Here’s a “review” of one of them…
Sigma 50-500 mm f/4.5-6.3 APO DG OS HSM review - Introduction - LensTip.com

I am much more comfortable with my smaller Nikon 70-300 “P” lens, but as the responses up above demonstrate, it’s not long enough to prevent pixelization because I can’t fill the screen.

@Stenis

I have had two system DSLR-cameras with CCD-sensors and heard the same words said about both KonicaMinolta D7D (6 MP) and Sony A350 (14,2 MP) especially compared to some later CMOS DSLR-cameras like A550 or A580.

@Stenis, I’m no longer thinking about this too much. Sure, I can go back to my Nikon D3 with CCD, but my newer cameras are and will be CMOS, and the ISO capability is far more important to me than the colors. What you wrote below sums it up nicely, for me:

@Stenis

I prefer CMOS every day. Even Leica abandoned the CCD-tech because it had because of its severe technical limitations. The worst problem with the CCD-sensors I had was the hopelessly poor ISO-performance.

They weren’t “technical limitations” at the time, that’s just how things were. Nowadays though, those limitations are real, compared with just using the newer gear.

Finally, Joanna, even you might find something useful here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zwIWhDcTEY&t=329s
I sure did!

[George]

@Stenis

One my A7 III and IV with adapter it cannot coexist with the IBIS in the camera houses. Either you have to choose IBIS or Sigma OS. If both were on the images got unsharp since they disturb each other.

On my Nikon Z6II the ibis is switched off automatic when a VR lens is adapted. Also when you swich the VR off.

@Stenis

Have you or anyone else tested the new version XD2? that they promote now with PureRaw?

I did on some old night shots with my old D80, lot’s of noice. DeepPrime and XD did do a wonderful job however XD gave it a to much plastic look. On these specific images.

George

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

What!!! I’m sorry but you are simply not thinking about what you want to get images of, apart from a bird, any bird, doing nothing in particular, that might or might not fill the frame and that might or might not be well exposed or focused.

Joanna, what you wrote was exactly what I was doing. I wasn’t as much trying to get a great photo, as I was trying to learn how to capture bird photos - it didn’t matter what the bird was, or what it was doing. Once I got one photo of the bird, I only then tried to get a “good” photo of the bird.

As to flying birds, I never got that right; it was impossible for me to fill the frame with the bird, and keep it there. I struggled to just keep the bird within the frame. But, the more I did it, I improved.

There’s that line “practice makes perfect”.

@Stenis

it was still price worthy I think if you don´t have a lot more to spend.

Well, that’s true, but the inability to keep the flying bird in my frame, holding the camera still, is MY problem, not the camera or the lens.

Think of it this way - before a person gets good at riding a bicycle, the first step is to simply lean how to ride the bicycle without falling. That’s where I’m at, the “beginner class”. When/if I get better, I’ll think about everything suggested up above.

For @Joanna - I’m sure you will tell me I’m wrong, but this what I think when I view your photo up above, but a little lighter to bring out more detail. To me, the “stuff” at the top and bottom just takes away from the heart of your wonderful, and unique, photo!!! It speaks for itself! …if you were to post it in the bird forum.

[Stenis (Sten-Åke Sändh (Sony, Win 11, PL 6, CO 16, PM Plus 6, XnView))]

@George

@Stenis

One my A7 III and IV with adapter it cannot coexist with the IBIS in the camera houses. Either you have to choose IBIS or Sigma OS. If both were on the images got unsharp since they disturb each other.

On my Nikon Z6II the ibis is switched off automatic when a VR lens is adapted. Also when you swich the VR off.

@Stenis

Have you or anyone else tested the new version XD2? that they promote now with PureRaw?

I did on some old night shots with my old D80, lot’s of noice. DeepPrime and XD did do a wonderful job however XD gave it a to much plastic look. On these specific images.

George

I think Nikon seems to have done a better job than Nikon with old lenses on adapter.

I also think Deep Prime XD has been a life saver for me working with these old CCD-pictures. It is also important to be careful not to use Microcontrast at all because it destroys the skies if there are any on the pictures.

[mikemyers]

@Stenis

I think Nikon seems to have done a better job than Nikon with old lenses on adapter.

I’m confused - do you mean Nikon on DSLR and on Mirrorless???

[mikemyers]

Joanna, I have eaten dinner, and had a nice glass of wine, I was thinking of this discussion, and something hit me like a brick. I don’t think I need to say more, just ask you a question.

Remember your photo of the two birds you posted earlier today?
…and do you remember my edited version?

If the local newspaper wanted to use that image along with a story, which of those two versions of your image do you think they would print?

If I was the editor, I know exactly which one I would use, and why.

At heart, you are an artist.
At heart, I am a photojournalist.

We see things very differently, and @Wolfgang and you (and I think many others) see things the way you do. I’m the “oddball” who always thinks of what editors want to show their public. I’ve been that way since I went to college, and too photos for the College newspaper. At least now, I can “see” both, probably due to you, and certainly due to the members of this forum. And you’re right, I’m no longer a working photojournalist, but old habits are difficult to lose.

Maybe I need to change hats, and go off looking for shapes, sizes, colors, and so on, that come together into something that might be worth framing, like the lovely photos some of you have been posting lately. That was great fun for me a year or so ago. …if I find one photo in a day, that’s enough, if I don’t mess it up in PhotoLab that is…

[mikemyers]

Help requested, if in fact there is an answer.

Is there any way in PhotoLab to add a “text comment” to an image?

Maybe I want to add a quick note, or a person’s name, or a type of bird or animal.

I know I can do this in “PhotoMechanic” if I start to use their tools to identify and keep track of my images, but I was thinking of a small file that could be saved in the same folder as the image.

If not, and since I always use PhotoMechanic, I’ll figure out how that works.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

Well, you can always use the IPTC sections that PL provides…

Contents | Description could be appropriate.

[Wolfgang ([ Win10, PL+VP+FP, Nik7 / 3.3 ])]

@mikemyers

I’m the “oddball” who always thinks of what editors want to show their public.

… be printed in “newspaper quality” – what a great suggestion!

After being told (thoroughly explained) what works and what doesn’t, you still come up with silly ideas – provoking attention.

Please stop fooling around if you want to be taken seriously.

[Required ( M1 | Nikon)]

@mikemyers

I can go back to my Nikon D3 with CCD, but my newer cameras are and will be CMOS, and the ISO capability is far more important to me than the colors

I might have misunderstood your post but every pro body camera from Nikon after that the D2x do use CMOS. So do the D3-series.
D200 used a CCD.
D300 moved to a CMOS.

[mikemyers]

@Wolfgang

After being told (thoroughly explained) what works and what doesn’t, you still come up with silly ideas – provoking attention.

@Wolfgang and others, please watch this video:

Red Tail Hawks, and a few other birds, with the Nikon D780 in high wind - pure magic!

Judging by what he shows, and does, and his equipment, I think he is a very experienced bird photographer. He also shows a series of photos, one after another, that he captured. I huge number of them were what you would call pixelated and worthless, yet here he is taking those images. One example is 1:11 minutes into the video.

My advice here in the forum is to not bother to take these images, no matter how appealing they look, because they will be pixelated. Me? I would take them anyway, knowing ahead of time they are too far away, and I don’t have a lens long enough to zoom in on the birds, no matter how exciting things get.

As I see it, my problem is not taking those images, but it is from posting them here in this forum.

Also, the more I try to follow birds around with my camera/lens, the better I get at doing so. It’s good practice/training.

The only person in this forum that I know has captured bird photographs is @Joanna. Maybe more of you have, maybe not, and if the images are so small in the capture, you’ll never bother to post them here in this forum.

I’m not as capable as this fellow, nor do I have such a long lens, nor do I have enough ability, but if the birds get within my acceptable range (fill at least 1/3 of the image with “bird”, I’ll try anyway.

Please do watch the video as it looks to me just like what I saw most of the time while following birds.

@Wolfgang

Please stop fooling around if you want to be taken seriously.

What you call “fooling around” is what I always go through when trying something new, along with “practice makes perfect”. Without what you call “fooling around”, I’ll never improve - at anything. Even riding a bike when I was a kid. Lots of bandages on knees, etc. It’s not a matter of my being taken seriously - I’m a beginner, and it shows. With time and practice and feedback, maybe I’ll improve. But along with all the pixelated crap I capture, I’m starting to also capture images I’d be happy to print and put up on my wall.

As I see it, the best way to learn, is to practice, endlessly, correcting mistakes, or trying to, as I go along.

(This image doesn’t “work” until I enlarge it, for the detail.)
780_3699 | 2024-04-04.nef (26.8 MB)

(And I may never catch up with the rest of you, as everytime I post an image, one of you edits it and improves it - which is great, as if I like the edits here, I’m likely to do things in a similar manner in the future. I’m always learning, and “doing”, and following most of the feedback I get here (but not all). )

Oh, and the cropping in this image was limited by desire to include so much of the iguana. Tighter cropping would allow the detail in the iguana to show up better. Heck, until someone pointed it out, the iguana blended in with the leaves so well, I looked right at it, and didn’t see it. I could finally see it best, through my camera, zoomed in.

This is what I would put up on my wall:

…but next time, I will do the cropping in my camera, not in PhotoLab.
…something else I need to remember.

@Required

I might have misunderstood your post but every pro body camera from Nikon after that the D2x do use CMOS. So do the D3-series.

Thanks, I didn’t know that. Maybe that’s why I can use higher ISO speeds on the D3 (but nothing like the D780).

Time to stop, and make breakfast.

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

Well, you can always use the IPTC sections that PL provides…

Thanks - I hadn’t thought of that, but this might be useful.
I assume I’d use EXIF Editor ?

I used to add “key words” back when I used LightRoom.
Is there a way to do that in PL that I’ve never yet noticed?

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

I assume I’d use EXIF Editor ?

No, just the metadata palette in PL.

@mikemyers

I used to add “key words” back when I used LightRoom.
Is there a way to do that in PL that I’ve never yet noticed?

Yes, just use the Keywords palette…

---

You could always look up the user manual

Look in the help index for more on the same subject.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

Talking of birds, here’s one of Helen’s…

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

Talking of birds, here’s one of Helen’s…

If I had posted that, I think I know what you would be saying.

Me? I think that’s a lovely photo, the bird looks good, it’s “doing” something (but I don’t know what is in its mouth), the composition is good, and it all adds up to what I think is a wonderful, lovely photo.

How much cropping was involved? I’m guessing the bird was only there for a few seconds, so it’s a great catch. …and the cropping fits the image nicely. It has proportions that make me think maybe it was from a mobile phone, not her D810. Do you know what kind of bird it is? …or maybe I shouldn’t be asking all these questions. I like the photo!

[Wolfgang ([ Win10, PL+VP+FP, Nik7 / 3.3 ])]

@mikemyers

What you call “fooling around” is what …

is not what you make up.

---

supporting your fading memory

You adviced Joanna to post even a portion of that strong crop on a birding forum
(inspite being discussed at full length)
and beyond to publish in a newspaper because you know …

really silly

[mikemyers]

@Wolfgang

supporting your fading memory

That’s one issue; the other is only two days of real experience photographing birds, and what I call “fooling around” (maybe I should have written “testing”) things that I obviously don’t yet understand.

If you watched the video I posted, you got to see this fellow taking a large number of photos, most of which would never be acceptable here if for no reason other than that they didn’t fill the frame enough.

I think you already know “everything”, and have long since forgotten your first attempts at things, I’m already aware I “suck” at still life photos, and I’m just beginning to learn how to photograph birds. You’re smarter than I am, more experienced, and you have a wonderful talent. It’s likely that I’ll never catch up with you, and several other people here, but I’ve been doing pretty well at capturing images that I like.

For me, it’s lots of reading, lots of watching YouTube videos, and LOTS of practice trying to catch up with the more talented people. As to my “fading memory”, I accept that it’s only going to get worse. As for publishing, several magazines here and abroad paid for my “photo habit” because they liked the material I sent them, and what I wrote. …could I do that again now? Doubtful.

Anyway, this is the last stationary bird photo I took on the last expedition.
Practically no editing, no cropping, and my arms hurt, and wanted to “wobble”. Before I worry about getting the most out of PhotoLab, the first priority is to be able to capture an acceptable image to edit. I wish I had the skill that I still lack, but how does that saying go: “Rome wasn’t built in a day”. And as for the image, it isn’t very captivating, but it’s the last picture like this that I took that day. (A monopod would help, a lot!)

However much I “suck” at bird photography, seeing this image puts a smile on my face!

780_4469 | 2024-04-04.nef (27.9 MB)
780_4469 | 2024-04-04.nef.dop (13.1 KB)

Eventually this will become a vertical image, with enough cropping. Eventually I’ll even figure out what the name of this bird is.

Oh, and my main goal for next time? Learn how to get my camera to focus better.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

Eventually this will become a vertical image, with enough cropping

So, instead of taking the image vertically, making the most of your 24Mpx camera, you decide to take it in landscape and crop it to 9Mpx, thus losing an enormous amount of detail in the bird - that can never be recovered

It might look alright but don’t look too closely.

[Wolfgang ([ Win10, PL+VP+FP, Nik7 / 3.3 ])]

@mikemyers

If you watched the video

As already said, I’m no wildlife photographer – and don’t care about birds either.
When I come across I take photos, but it’s not my topic/interest.

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

So, instead of taking the image vertically, making the most of your 24Mpx camera, you decide to take it in landscape and crop it to 9Mpx, thus losing an enormous amount of detail in the bird - that can never be recovered

Technically, your reasoning is 100% right. Forgetting the other considerations, the lens was already at 300mm. Had I rotated the camera, there was no way to zoom in more, making the bird larger, to fill my screen.

Also, by then, I was tired, my arms were tired, the lens felt twice as heavy as earlier, and I was ready to leave.

Side note - I haven’t yet found a comfortable way to shoot the most Nikons in a vertical orientation; it’s easier for me to hold the camera horizontally, especially when I’m tired. My D3, with the built-in grip, makes it more comfortable to take vertical photos. My new 50-500 lens would allow me to do what you suggest, turning the camera 90 degrees, and zooming in closer.

Thanks - what you suggest is obviously the right thing to do, when possible. At that moment in time, my “get up and go” had already “gotten up and went”.

Had I shot in vertical mode, as you suggest, with my lens already at 300mm, what would you have done?