Off-Topic - advice, experiences and examples, for images that will be processed in PhotoLab

I would never contemplate darkroom printing.It is simply too expensive, not just in terms of purchasing all the kit but in terms of having to print test strips and trial prints, which you have to assess before spending even more money on yet another sheet of paper before being totally satisfied.


We scan using an Epson V700 flatbed scanner with a BetterScanning mount, producing a 16 bit TIFF and then using either PL or Affinity Photo to de-spot the resulting files.

Learning how to scan well is an art form in itself and requires knowing how to create a tone curve to match each and every negative, in order to get the maximum of detail out of the neg.


What’s to recognise? It’s a TIFF file created by a scanner, with a lot of manual adjustment in the scanning software. Just put the TIFF files in a folder and point PL at that folder.

The only reason you “import” DSLR files is because you want to add all sorts of metadata on the way but, in reality, all you have to do to get digital files into PhotoLab is to simply place them into a folder, just like you would an ordinary TIFF file.

What do you mean “a lens”? We have 72mm, 90mm, 120mm, 150mm, 180mm, 210mm and 400mm lenses. Since you don’t get zoom, apart from walking back and forth, you need to consider what focal length to use and, instead of wasting half the image by cropping from a wider lens, you tend to not bother taking a shot if you can’t match the focal length and distance to the full frame. By the way, 400mm is not considered telephoto, it is a portrait lens, equivalent to about 110mm.

It would be extremely rare to take your “spur of the moment” type of photos - there is far too much setting up to do. The fastest shot we ever took was one of the lighthouse and sunset at Pontusval, which took three of us (experienced LF photographers) less than ten minutes, with Helen composing the image and selecting the lens, me reading and calculating the exposure and Jean-Yvon fetching and carrying on demand from the car.

Oh, yes. That’s the other consideration. Someone once said, if it’s further than 50metres from the car, it’s not picturesque. As age creeps up on you, you develop an aversion to carrying a 15kg backpack.


The camera you linked to is a monorail, which you definitely don’t want to be lugging around outside - it is more a studio camera and requires a sturdy tripod head like the Manfrotto 410

Then there’s the lens board for each lens and a few cable releases, because some lenses are on recessed boards and require a right-angled release.

Not forgetting that developer and fixer have limited life and, unless you plan on burning money, you need to develop sheets in batches of 4 or 6 if you are using tanks.


In summary, don’t bother unless you are prepared to commit seriously to taking LF regularly.

I knew it was difficult, but I never imagined ALL of what you just wrote.

In a typical year, how many LF photos do you capture?
…and a related question, how often do you need to return to re-take the photo.

If money were no object, would you use a camera such as this, which accepts both medium format film and digital backs?
Medium format and digital

I’m just thinking out loud, as a camera like this can capture digital images as well as film.

On the other hand, the earlier article I linked to implied that average people could learn enough to capture LF images, but you’ve brought out all the complexities. Unless you wanted to make a wall-size print, or larger, I think a D850 + lenses + PhotoLab makes for a much more practical solution for 99.9% of us in 2023.

I admire not only your knowledge and ability, but also your stamina. Ditto for Helen.

I was writing back and forth with a friend of mine, who I traveled with across much of South India, and this reminded me of the photos I took. One of the places we went was Ft. Kochi, which was unique, beautiful, fascinating, all rolled into one - but on the way there, if either of us noticed something interesting, we told the driver to stop. This photo is one of my favorites. It’s not a very exciting picture, an almost un-used railroad track, a railroad shed, and fences probably to keep cows and other animals off the tracks. I took four photos, setting up each one as if I was using a large frame camera, getting the right stuff in the image, at the right place, an excluding anything that didn’t add to the photo. It was captured on 11/11/11, using my Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5 with its Leica lens. Too late to do anything about the lack of RAW, as at the time I thought JPG was adequate. Stupid me. It was a peaceful, calm, quiet day, with nothing happening, nobody else on the road, or even in sight. I just pretended I was a tripod, and tried to fill the frame with “picture”. Sorry about no clouds, but at least the sky was blue.

edited jpg image:

Original jpg image:

dop file:
P1050676.JPG.dop (17.4 KB)

Not much editing - removing some wires, lightening up the area under the roof so the details showed up, and making sure verticals show up as vertical. The original, non-lightened version, in some ways looks better to me. I might un-do that by turning off “SmartLighting”. Advice on what I did (and what I did not) in PhotoLab would be welcome.

About a dozen or so on average, depending on the location.

Never. Because at the price of sheet film, we get it right first time. Although, for the Ribblehead Viaduct shot, we did visit the location five times to work out the camera position, then waiting for the best light and sky. The steam engine was pure serendipity on our fifth visit. But only one press of the shutter and one sheet of film.

If the back were a 115Mpx 5" x 4" sensor, maybe. But with a D850 producing 45Mpx images, which can be printed up to 36" x 24" without any upscaling and double that without any real loss of quality, why bother spending a small fortune on all that gear?

Also, the smaller the sensor, the more difficult it is to work on the back of the camera when using movements.

… your ooc jpeg looks better than your edit – but missing the cow … on the track to make it interesting.

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Last question - in dollars, how much does each sheet of film, along with related expenses, cost you?

I agree. As to the cow, yeah. Better yet, an ox… I always enjoyed taking photos of oxen, whenever I could. On the same day, I photographed two of them splashing around in the mud, preparing a field for rice planting, I think. They were too busy and working too hard to pay any attention to me.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/108314-REG/Ilford_1743454_Delta_100_Professional_4x5_100.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/188027-REG/Ilford_1155055_Ilfotec_DD_X_Developer.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/169348-REG/Ilford_1893870_Ilfostop_Stop_Bath_500ml.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/253199-REG/Ilford_1984262_Rapid_Fixer_Liquid_1_Liter.html

As for price per sheet, I would estimate $6-7, depending on number of sheets processed per batch

Hmm, in today’s world, where a camera I sort of want sells for almost $10,000, and with a cost for their lease ranging from $5,000 to $10,000, even if I thought of large format film rounded off to $10 per shot, LF photography doesn’t seem prohibitive because of the cost (but VERY MUCH SO because of the “inconvenience”). Now that smaller cameras have caught up so much with LF quality, that sounds more reasonable - like what you have said about the D850 with good lenses. No more questions or comments from me about LF. Ain’t gonna happen.

I went with the D850 in the end, along with a zoom. Thanks @Joanna for the Greys of Westminster recommendation, I went another route in the end but will bookmark their site for sure.

Should I leave the vignette, noise reduction, correction settings in camera off and leave that to DxO? I’m unclear from the manual as to whether they all apply to JPEG only or not.

They apply to JPG or (in case you want top try the weird Nikon RAW converter) as command fort that app. Good lock with your mirror slapping super-cool DSLR, I still like that beast.

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It’s a thumping great lump and what a racket!

Love it :smiley:

There are SO many things the new Nikons have activated which you want to turn off. Joanna pointed me at things I didn’t know even existed. In the end, I went through ALL the menus, twice, and turned off anything “automatic”.

(To be honest, some of them I’m aware of, but sometimes use anyway, such as auto-ISO. Shhh… don’t let Joanna know - but by default, even that setting is automatically OFF.)

I agree with Joachim that some of them only apply to jpg, which you won’t be using, but there’s no need to have them turned on if you’re shooting RAW.)

I’m sure Joanna will tell you (as she told me) that YOU should be in charge of what the camera does, not the camera software, and you have much more control if you do it in PhotoLab.

Since I don’t own, and never did, a D850, I shouldn’t say much about it - but this video for the D750 may be a big help to you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmYJuCZiJWE
There are a lot of useful tips in this video, and I suspect many of them apply to the D850.

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Enjoy the time until your spine leads you back to son no. 3

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I couldn’t resist.
But when I held it at B&H, it was more than I could deal with.
But Joanna loves it!!!

OK, back to the real world.
Which lens(es) did you buy?

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Just the one for now Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24–70mm f/2.8E ED VR Lens | Vibration Reduction

Assuming this is your lens, it is very capable (and very heavy).
https://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/24-70mm-vr.htm
Sounds like a perfect lens to go on a D850. Very impressive. Fast, too.

Wondering what results you’re going to get with it. Ken’s photos are very impressive. Joanna will probably post a better review site - I enjoy what Ken writes and how he writes it, as it’s easy to digest and understand.

How many batteries did you get?

You can cancel your gym membership. This camera/lens combo is all you need!!

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that you still have not understood (how to use them to your advantage).

I’m sure you are right, but I’m beginning to think that I don’t need or want any of that stuff - the D750, 850, 780, and so on are computers with a lens on the front. So is my M10, but with a less powerful computer and maybe 5% of the fancy tools. My Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5 (was a typical pocket camera, but with a Leica lens) over 10 years ago, and it was often able to capture what I wanted, and more enjoyable to use than the (much more powerful) D780. The camera fit in my pocket, and I was pleased with the lens. All I want my camera to do, is capture an image of what I was looking at, and for me to do my best at composition, timing, and all the rest.

I shot about 20 images of the oxen pulling a plow-type-device in this muddy field. I had a favorite image long ago, but now I prefer this image. PhotLab easily brought out what was in my mind, and I didn’t use the tools that messed up my previous image.

I enjoy photographing the world around me. To me, this image is also “artistic”, but what’s important to me may be irrelevant to many people in this discussion (although you’ve all VERY MUCH improved my ability to take an image I captured, and bring out what I saw, and what I want to show others.

I still have that Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5. I prefer my M10, which is like my old film Leica that shoots digital.

that you still have not understood (how to use them to your advantage).

All I need is a quality camera with a good lens, which lets me control aperture, shutter, focus, and ISO.

I accept that many of you feel I’m wrong, but to me, all the fancy work can be done in the darkroom or computer, and I can do that better with PhotoLab than any of the 15 or so image editors I no longer use. For a while I thought it better to do most of it in the camera, but now I accept that I was wrong.

When I capture an image like this one, and do it to my satisfaction, I am happy.

When I post an image in my gallery, I rarely get feedback.
When I post an image here, I get lots of (usually constructive) feedback.

…and this image isn’t finished - I ought to remove the wires eventually. I would also prefer a light blue sky. Later.

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Again, just the one for now though I will be getting one more. My Leica APS-C CL chews through one in about half a day of shooting with several power saving measures turned on, I’m hoping the Nikon will do quite a bit better than that

That depends if you stay strictly within the realm of mirror gymnastics or use LiveView to grab a more precise focus with a much wider range of focus points. A 2nd battery is never a bad investment, even if the camera is too stupid to recognize the battery charge in some moments. Firmware updates or sensor cleaning will be refused unless the battery is fully charged. A fully charged battery inside the body and a ¾ charged EN-EL 18c (yes, the big 10.8V 27 Wh) in the grip are not enough charge for Mrs. Nikon to run a fw-update. It’s ridiculous…

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