Off-Topic - advice, experiences and examples, for images that will be processed in PhotoLab

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

I’ll start with how to locate the part of the tone curve where the modification is needed

Here’s a little exercise. Start with this greyscale…

Greyscale_DxO.tif.zip (1,1 Mo)

In PL, you will see…

Moving the mouse over the image, the tonality under the cursor will be displayed under the histogram. The centre strip here shows up as 127|127|127.

Now, adjust the curve like this…

The left side of the “dip” is just to the right of the centre of the graph…

… so that means it is roughly at around 130 out of the available 255.

If you hover the mouse over the wide band you have created, you will see that the numbers under the histogram read around 68.

So, what we have done here is to create an extreme change of level (contrast) that affects all tones from around 130 to 237. The curve is vertical, which means a very high contrast between the tones before the dip and those in the dip. Likewise, there is another high contrast change to the right of the dip.

If we change the curve to something resembling a step…

… then you can see that the more vertical section corresponds to a sharp change in level (high contrast) and the more horizontal section corresponds to a very slight change in level (low contrast).

Of course, in a real image, you are unlikely to see these exaggerated changes but I thought it might help to demonstrate the effects such changes to a curve have on contrast at a given level.

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

Only if you want a major clue to the fact that PL doesn’t yet have a pipette to place points on the tone curve.

Two quick thoughts.
I thought I remember you saying you did use the control curve, which is why I asked as there wasn’t much difference between your curve and mine. OK, understood - this is a useful tool (once I learn how to do it) and sometimes it doesn’t work for the purpose I had in mind.

Yes, that way to use a pipette would be a very useful addition for PhotoLab. I could quickly find the correct spot on the tone curve for wherever I placed the pipette on the image. Maybe in PL8 ? They probably have other things with a higher priority.

[mikemyers]

@MSmithy

he used similar idea or shooting animals as they are camouflaged. Camouflaged, so well that in fact finding them was the challenge.

There aren’t many animals in Miami Beach, camouflaged or otherwise. Interesting thoughts, if I ever go on a safari. Thanks in advance!

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

Of course, in a real image, you are unlikely to see these exaggerated changes but I thought it might help to demonstrate the effects such changes to a curve have on contrast at a given level.

Fascinating - I know you have done this in the past, but I never understood HOW it worked.
Not sure how to use it yet, but something to learn.

[MSmithy (Milan)]

What about everglades? Also just because you don’t see animals around urban area it does not mean they are not there… in fact that by itself could be a project of an enthusiasts. Remember that famous shot of Puma or Mountain Lion walking past the Hollywood sign in California? They are there, just not always noticeable. Cheers!

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

Why, oh why do you want to go back to using a crappy old 12Mpx D3, with a filthy sensor, when you’ve got a perfectly working, modern, 24Mpx D780?

Nonetheless, the exposure was as near perfect as possible - but, with matrix mode metering, it was a case of letting the camera do all the hard work. And you left the white balance in auto.

You stated that you don’t like automatisms but, in reverting to this old camera, you forgot to take control of it like you have with your D780.

• Why didn’t you use your zoom to get the tighter framing you ended up with?
• Why did you open up to such wide apertures, thus losing depth of field? Although with such few pixels, the only thing that is likely to be sharp are the pixel edges…

There are times and places where I might not want to walk around with my D780. I spent most of yesterday with the D3, first cleaning the sensor, and then learning where the controls are to match the settings on my 780. I kept going back to the manual to set the controls, and I hadn’t yet changed the camera from “matrix metering”. Will do that today. As to the lens, I put on the 50mm lens for testing, and it was still on the camera when I saw this shot. At that time, I liked the larger coverage, but on my computer I decide to crop. I will normally have a zoom lens on it, most likely my 28-70 f/3.5 with macro.

The D3 is in manual mode, and there are likely more settings I need to adjust. I didn’t realize it was in matrix metering. That will be changed. I do have it set for “back button focus”, and there is a button for “AEL-AFL” which might allow me to meter. which should be set to center-weighted, to the important part of the image. …just looked, there is a dial on the right side of the viewfinder which was set to matrix metering. It is now changed to center-weighted. One of many things I didn’t remember.

[mikemyers]

@George

That one person is totally irrelevant in this image. What I wonder is why these 2 boats have each 3 engines each.

Bragging rights? I have no idea, other than for “show”.
Maybe they are there to make it easier to turn the boat while not moving?
Even so, all it would need is two, if that was even needed.
Me? I can understand two, but three???

[mikemyers]

@George

That one person is totally irrelevant in this image.

I waited, and waited, for that one person to be in a position where it would be obvious he was cleaning the boat, and to add a little “life” to an otherwise stagnant image.

[danielfrimley (Leica APS-C CL, Nikon D850 | MacBook Air (M1))]

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20716625

[JoPoV]

@mikemyers

Yes, that way to use a pipette would be a very useful addition for PhotoLab. I could quickly find the correct spot on the tone curve for wherever I placed the pipette on the image. Maybe in PL8 ? They probably have other things with a higher priority.

A lot of other improvments should be done on this tool.
What I hope is if (WHEN) they modify a tool they really create a fully easily usable modern and not archaic ! tool. (Look what exist now in good packages - very good packages are even better as inspiration source. Composting and grading packages are good direction to look too).
A pipette only would be a a bone thrown into the air for this tool.

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

Why, oh why do you want to go back to using a crappy old 12Mpx D3, with a filthy sensor, when you’ve got a perfectly working, modern, 24Mpx D780?

Thinking about this some more, I thought I already posted where and when the old D3 might be useful to me.

As for dirt on the sensor, I can find 7 small specs of dirt on the sensor, but I don’t dare take it to the shop as when I put the camera in mirror-lock-up mode, it seems to time out and the mirror goes back on its own after a while. Reading about this, it seems to be due to a not-fully-charged battery. I have about 7 or 8 batteries, with two useable Nikon batteries, and one seemingly perfect Watson battery. To be safe, I need to buy a new Nikon EN-EL4 battery before I do any more cleaning, or take it to the shop. The D3 has a setting where it gives a report on whatever battery is in the camera.d. …my batteries are most likely around 20 years old!!

About megapixels - the D3 has half of what the D780 has, which in turn has half of what your D850 has. So, I have a "crappy old D780 with 24 megapixels, when I could (should?) have bought a D850.

Once the D3 is configured properly, and working, and I have a good battery for it, I will most likely put it aside for “special occasions”. Walking along alone in Miami is not a really safe place to be, and walking around alone in India (or other tourist places) can also be unsafe. To replace my 780 would cost me $3K. To replace the D3 would cost me $700. That’s one time when I might bring the D3, and a good reason why I’ll never take my Leica M10.

Safe To Travel To India In 2023?

Regardless of all the above, I expect I will be mostly using my D780 most of the time, but I will reconsider when I travel.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

I waited, and waited, for that one person to be in a position where it would be obvious he was cleaning the boat, and to add a little “life” to an otherwise stagnant image

Unfortunately, only consisting of a few dozen pixels, it just looks like a spidery smudge. It certainly doesn’t draw the eye as a subject should.

[mikemyers]

I usually get proven wrong, but I think this image is as nice as I can get it to look with PhotoLab.

I was walking home from the bagel shop, and I was told it was 105 degrees outside - HOT. I was more interested in getting home than getting photos, but I saw these apparently re-painted water mains. I looked at them from the left, from straight on, and from the right. This was the only view I liked, with green leaves surrounding the pipes. ISO 200 for good dynamic range, f/22 for depth of field, shutter at only 1/25th, but with the shutter now set to 1/25th, I thought I could hold the camera still enough. The D3 is so heavy that helps, and I raised both contrast and fine contrast.

I did something new this time that I never tried before. When I thought I was finished, I clicked the COMPARE button on and off, and found a few things (such as the color) that were corrected too much, so I toned them down. Now, the COMPARE tool changes from a “flat”, “dull” image to something I like - but since I shot this on a hazy day, with no bright sunlight, the image isn’t really realistic - but I like it more than without these corrections.

I enjoy photographing pipes and mains like this - it’s so… mechanical!

I think it’s interesting, but most people just walk on by, and not give it a second thought. I enjoy taking photos like this, and looking at them later. It’s probably as close to “art” as I’ll ever get.

D3M_0118 | 2023-06-23.nef (24.5 MB)
D3M_0118 | 2023-06-23.nef.dop (16.2 KB)

[LStoev (Lachezar Stoev)]

Three thoughts:

1. The ground is too bright and distracting.
2. The leaves are also distracting, although they’re contrasty rather than outright bright. Sure, you’ve darkened parts of them, but you haven’t dampened the highlights. Contrast draws the eyes even more than straight-up exposure.
3. The crop is too tight and cramped. Sure, you want to direct our attention toward the pipes, but you can also do that with tonality, rather than outright boxing us in.

Point 3 is a bit subjective, I admit, but 1&2 are valid even for your crop. Anyway, here’s my version:

I didn’t do anything particularly interesting, and what I did, I did somewhat messily, but if you want it, here’s the .dop.

D3M_0118 _ 2023-06-23.nef.dop (20.7 KB)

[mikemyers]

@LStoev

I didn’t do anything particularly interesting, and what I did, I did somewhat messily, but if you want it, here’s the .dop.

Thank you! The ground is probably too bright, but it was concrete - I mostly just deleted the cigarette butt and some other “junk”.
Leaves - I agree. Too bright. Your leaves are better.
Cropping - I guess I need more feedback. To me, the upper part of the image was just wasted space.
Tonality? I’m guessing you think I should tone down the green color? I did, but maybe not enough. I’ll agree, in your version, my eyes are no longer drawn to the leaves. I’ll check out your .dop file later tonight.

I did turn off, and back on, a lot of my edits, but I didn’t go far enough. My problem is like the leaves, but it’s a better image without them being so bright - I wonder what Joanna will suggest??

[mikemyers]

How important is it to have a “good” camera? In January, 2006 I went to India with a Nikon D70, which is now considered an antique. I brought my 80-200 lens with me. While there, I was invited to go to a Jallikattu (sort of like a bull-fight) event, and I jumped at the chance. I had been to a similar event the year before, but I was sitting way too far away that time. This time I managed to get a seat almost literally on top of the action.

Bulls are let loose in an arena at one end, and they are supposed to run to the other end. To make the bulls more dangerous, the owners used to be feed things to the bulls to make them angry (and did other things as well) and the tips of the horns were sharpened, making them even more dangerous. Several people usually get injured at these events, and one or two people usually die - which is why the sport was banned, but then brought back with rules to make it safer.

The bull-fighters (my word) try to wrap their arms around the horn of the bull, as shown in this photo. If someone could do that for a specified time, that person won an expensive prize. If nobody could do that, the same prize went to the owner of the bull !! The crowd was immense. The safety aspect was highly debatable - one look at the stand, and it looked like the whole thing could come crashing down. Me? I was so focused on photography, I ignored anything else.

I had my Nikon at the very front of the viewing area, with my 80-200 lens, and one after another I was photographing each bull as they entered the arena. Back then, I thought the D70 was a fine camera. I wish I had used RAW, but I was always shooting jpg images back then.

This is possibly my favorite image, as it shows everything, and isn’t “gory”. PhotoLab made it better, and “fine contrast” brought out more detail on the bull’s skin - and the angry face.

Original jpg image:

DSC_5060.JPG.dop (13.9 KB)

Edited jpg:

I showed the photos to a group of photographers in India last year - they could hardly believe the images came from a D70! It’s the Indian, not the Arrow. Back then I was younger, and stronger, and perhaps too foolish for even going to an event like this. I’ll post another photo later, showing the whole arena.

(Compare the “before” and “after” and it’s obvious how well PhotoLab improved the image.)
(You’re all welcome to try…)

[LStoev (Lachezar Stoev)]

@mikemyers

Tonality? I’m guessing you think I should tone down the green color?

Exactly! The single most important adjustment I did was enabling the HSL wheel and turning the greens down slightly. You don’t even have to pinpoint it manually, just pick green and turn saturation down.

The rest is a mess of local adjustments, which you can surely replicate with less control lines/points than I used in my edit, but it’s 3 am here and I’m slightly drunk, so I just gave it a quick and dirty edit to illustrate my point. The bull photo looks interesting and I’ll see whether I can help tomorrow.

[mikemyers]

The stadium from the far end:

Trying to grab a bull:

The structure at the far end of this photo, with several levels, is where I took by earlier picture from:

To be honest, I don’t know if I would do this again. In January, 2006 I was fearless. Not so much any more.

[mikemyers]

@LStoev

Exactly! The single most important adjustment I did was enabling the HSL wheel and turning the greens down slightly. You don’t even have to pinpoint it manually, just pick green and turn saturation down.

I agree completely - never even thought of doing that. Obvious, in retrospect. So obvious.
I get so wrapped up in what I’m doing, that my mind doesn’t step back, and say wait a minute, and think things through. From my point of view, that was a brilliant observation you made. Joanna is likely to ask why I didn’t do it already? No excuse. Sorry.

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

You stated that you don’t like automatisms but, in reverting to this old camera, you forgot to take control of it like you have with your D780.

My D3 has “Nikon Shooting Menu Bank”.
The first one, “A”, has all the automatic controls switched off.
The second one “B” now has auto-ISO turned on.

Nikon D3 - Manual (Page 317)

I’m trying to get all the automated controls switched off for bank “A”.
For images that I can’t keep up with, such as ISO, and focus, I will use bank “B”.
Supposedly my D780 and your D850 have something similar.

I set the white balance to close to 5600 for bank “A”.

Now I’ve got a mode where the camera won’t mess with my settings,
and I’ve got a mode where the camera does things when I don’t have time.

For some types of photography (such as sports) there isn’t enough time to do what’s needed.
For landscapes, etc., I’ve got all the time I want.

I named bank “A” Joanna.