My pictures only have to meet my expectations. 
sometimes low ones, other times I try to challenge myself. If somebody else likes them too, fine. Except the ones I take as commission for others. But then I try to find out before, what the other person wants. Interestingly you were going for Agfa-filmlook. I didn’t like their products when I was shooting film, they were often more grainy than I was used from Fujifilm or Kodachrome.
Hi welkom to the discussion.
About your image.
What you could do as improvement is:
1 zoomed i see dust and dirt on the bulb. On purpose or just forgot to clean? 
2 if the bulb is the only subject, darken the foot with local mask by lowering exposure value after masking so the bulb is floating and place it centrered in the middle.
3 to give the bulb purpose you could set up the lamp as the “moon” and place kids toys as “earth life” underneath it. Like a toy car.
Then play with perspective to give it the propper angle.
(if you have viewpoint you can use that toy perspective tool, or just use the lineair mask and force some blur in to it to get the DoF feel right.)
A PhotoLab question - How best to take B&W photos with a “color camera” to be processed in PhotoLab. I watched a video last night from the Leica Red Dot Forum Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDsav-rp1NU&t=6750s
It’s a goldmine of good information about both Leica’s Monochrom cameras, and B&W photography as it relates to color. It reminded me of things I used to know, and things I had forgotten all about.
The Monochrom cameras only record in B&W. There are no separate channels. All the information goes to one channel, and it allows shooting at ISO speeds that sound outrageous and get wonderful results.
I only got to watch the first part - need to watch the rest and then watch it again so I better understand.
While watching, I was wondering if there is any way to take a “normal” camera, and come closer to what the Monochrom does. Specifically, two things I was wondering about:
1 - What would be the appropriate settings on a “normal” camera to capture the best image in B&W - knowing that the “raw image” will still be a color image, and it will need to have the colors removed.
2 - In my old B&W photography, I might put an orange filter on the lens, and maybe even a red filter, to deepen the “blue sky”. The video suggested that is not possible with a color camera. I suspect that is because the color camera has three “channels”, and while one channel will be affected by doing this, the other two won’t.
If I won the lottery, maybe I would buy a Monochrom camera, but short of that, they are way too expensive.
What I’ve already done on my M10 and D780 was to show the B&W image in the camera, and the ‘jpg’ previews. That’s easy, but I don’t know how useful it is, if at all.
Any suggestions? (If you have time, watch the video - lots of good information there, most of it “general” and not about the Monochrom camera.
With mirrorless cameras, including my Nikon Z fc, you can set the EVF to monochrome and easily adjust things like contrast and sharpness so you can better visualize what your monochrome image will look like while you’re capturing the image through the viewfinder. I find it much more useful than viewing an image in color that you’re intending to convert to black and white. Of course, the actual Raw file is still in color, but seeing it in black and white through the viewfinder can help with the framing and give you at least an idea of whether monochrome will work for that image.
If the Monochrom is a rangefinder, I’m guessing you’re still seeing the image in color through the viewfinder while you’re framing it.
Mark
Yep. Leica is living in the old days and selling a camera “permanently loaded with B&W film”. And like in the old days, the photographer needs experience with B&W, to measure the contrast and to calculate the use of optical filters to darken or lighten colours along the same bandwidth. Just this time there other way round, as it’s not taking “panchromatic B&W film with a gap in blue tones” but working as a B&W positive film.
But one can add an EVF. To a rangefinder camera, for those who can also buy a synthetic rhythm generator to a church organ. Or simply shy away from looking like using a fat smartphone and holding it’s monitor 30 cm in front of the face.
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As @danielfrimley points out, you’ve already asked that question, in a thread I started explicitly for discussing B&W work, but which rapidly got diverted into discussion of how wonderful Leica cameras are (not) and whether it was worth feeding the Leica propaganda machine.
To summarise…
Before digital cameras were invented, we used to produce wonderful B&W images by getting to know how colour filters worked, in front of the lens, because we couldn’t change anything once the image was committed to B&W film. The viewfinder showed us a colour image because it was an optical viewfinder.
With digital cameras we can either use physical filters on the lens or apply them using FilmPack’s filter emulations. Either way, you still get to see a colour image in the viewfinder, unless you use an EVF.
You can spend a small fortune on a certain fetish B&W camera but…
- The Leica Monochrome is not supported in PL6
- The RAW file is still an RGB file, not a greyscale file
So, you would be no further forwards than taking the image with any other digital camera out there.
We still have to do what we have always had to do since the camera was invented - learn how to visualise and take B&W images.
When we shot with film, spectral sensitivity depended on the film we chose. Most film was panchromatic but we could also obtain orthochromatic film, which is unable to capture reds. Some films, like Fuji Acros 100 is defined as orthopanchromatic, which is a mixture of the two and gives it such a beautiful rendering.
Even if we use a B&W emulation on the camera (EVF or rear screen), any filters we put in front of the lens are going to work on the panchromatic level because that is what the sensor sees.
My advice - use the camera as normal and use FilmPack to choose your film and filters.
Good B&W photography relies on much more than removing colour. There’s an interesting short article here. It’s not authoritative or comprehensive, but it mentions several important fundamentals.
Final thought - good B&W images are often harder to make than good colour images and need to be visualised before you take them, if at all possible.
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Wow! Well, that’s tonight’s viewing decided.
Quick example of orthochromatic film (Rollei Ortho 25)…
… vs Fuji Acros 100…
Which is why it’s not always possible to see a useful B&W preview in the camera.
Yes, I have done that on both my M10 and D870, and yes, it does help me visualize what the scene might look like in B&W. The rangefinder window is just a “clear” opening, so it remains in color. I was asking more about all the zillions of other settings - should leave them the same as for color, or ???
Leica makes the Monochrom camera in several configurations, including rangefinder.
Yes, that sums it up nicely.
Yes, what little I know now came from those discussions, but after watching the video I linked to, I was wondering if there were better options than what I did before. For example, apparently using an “orange filter” to darken the sky no longer works on a camera designed for color photography. I was surprised to read that. Apparently this is because the color cameras have three “channels”, and b&w cameras (and the Monochrom) have only one.
What I learned from those earlier discussions was to shoot normally, and do all my work in PhotoLab, so I’ve been shooting with the same settings as I might use for color photography.
I’ve also learned that Kolari Vision can convert a “normal” camera to “full spectrum”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full-spectrum_photography. But that’s not the same thing. Here is a better explanation of what a Monochrom camera can provide:
https://www.e-consystems.com/blog/camera/technology/a-short-guide-to-why-monochrome-cameras-have-the-edge-over-color-cameras/
Oh well, I’m getting too far off-topic, and I don’t have the thousands of dollars to spend. I’ll just do the best I can with the earlier advice noted above. …if I had the $$$ though, I’d likely buy a used Monochrom camera…
Thanks!
Stop making life complicated 
the only thing that needs changing is the picture setting from colour to B&W.
As you have said, it’s not the camera that makes the picture, it’s the photographer. And, when it comes to B&W, that is even more relevant. At the level you are taking pictures, you’re not going to see enough difference to warrant the exorbitance of a dedicated monochrome camera.
It is so much easier to take in colour and then choose both film and filters - then you get the flexibility that you had when you used to choose which roll of film, rather than being tied to the one rendering that the camera manufacturer offers.
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My M10 only shoots (raw images) in color. There is no such setting.
The M10 Monochrom creates 40 megapixel B&W (only) files.
If you watched the video, you wouldn’t say that - with the Monochrom, I would be WAY ahead in so many ways, no pun intended… 
Sadly, you are right. Unless I buy a Monochrom, I will do exactly as you noted.
Even if I buy an old M series Monochrom, it’s going to be around $4,000.
KEH used, old, Monochrom
The link you posted looks fascinating. Thanks for posting it.
(Sadly) I agree, but there are 4,000 reasons why I will follow your advice, once I get better at it.
My life is always complicated. Years ago, it was easier and simpler.
Among other projects and fun photo trips, I used to spend many hours photographing monkeys in India, being careful not to get too close to them. Every so often, they posed for me in a way that I really enjoyed. I haven’t been taking photos lately, but I looked up this one to edit today.
Hopefully at least some of you may enjoy it.
It may or may not be artistic, but it certainly is NOT a journalistic photo.
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I never heard of this film before. I was editing a photo I took of the Empire State Building on a foggy day that I was going to B&H Photo, read your post, and. tried that film on one of my images. I have two impressions, just like when viewing your photos - it creates what looks like a terribly exposed photograph, but at the same time, it gives the image some kind of “character”.
In color, it looked like what it was - a snapshot of the building on a rainy day, but not very interesting.
Using this “Rollei Ortho 25” changed it so much I now like it. It also killed any pretense at being photojournalistic.
Terribly exposed - definitely not, beautifully exposed more like.
A snapshot - no. A very well composed shot with lovely separation between the foreground and the distant skyscraper; with leading lines from the bottom corners.
A really good B&W subject.
That’ll be a 9.9 out of 10 from both Helen and me.
Thanks! Tell Helen that this put a smile on my face.
I’m looking for a recommendation for a DSLR and a DxO supported zoom combo - sounds like the D850 with the Nikkor 28-300 gets a lot of love here, what about Canon? Very good used is OK (I imagine new is a dwindling option) - budget £3000
Edit: Sorry, should add FF and I’ve never shot a video in my life and don’t plan to start now.
“I never drew a circle and don’t plan to start now”… 
how many things are you doing without having planned them? If you can say with certainty “I never did anything I hadn’t planned before” – fine. Sometimes the appetite comes when the food is on the table.
Besides, there are not many cameras around without video, but I guess you only wanted to let us know “video is of no importance to me”, right?
To recommend you a camera it would be interesting to know what your main subjects are or should be (planned or not) in the future? The 28-300 gets a lot of love from one single person using it at f/10. I will not recommend that shard, I owned it and found it rather “meh”. Long end weak, wide end lame.
And why on Earth do you want to invest in DSLR? It will be around for a while and for the bodies also plenty of good lenses. If you want to go cheap – second hand DSLR is a good way, chances are high to get excellent stuff at lower costs. Just with all the disadvantages coming with it. You have an APS-C mirrorless body with interchangeable lenses. What are you hoping to gain by going DSLR?
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Unless (like me) you want something smaller and lighter, the D850 would be an excellent start. Here are three choices:
D850
KEH lets you return things if you’re not satisfied, but I would suggest the middle choice.
I don’t know enough to select a lens - if it was me, I would select any basic (inexpensive) lens to start with, and spend my time learning the camera. You can get the lens later. Or, if you’re already sure, here are four good choices and two more I would ignore:
28-300
Never having used one, I’ve got no comment, but there is also the newer one that I wrote about earlier, which is supposed to be better. …but you can pick any inexpensive lens to start with, and learn how to use the D850 before you get a big lens.
Maybe, like me, the mirrorless copies have too many disadvantages, and the better DSLR cameras are a proven product, that I never see anyone complaining about. But you are right, KEH cameras and gear are second hand, and third hand, and fourth hand, and… They give you a choice.
I realise that @JoJu has his own, slightly distorted, sense of reality, but I have possessed and used this lens, almost daily and have never found it lacking enough to consider changing. I bought it based on Ken Rockwell’s review and have not been disappointed.
@JoJu has totally misinterpreted something I said about using f/10 all the time - something which is totally untrue as I am a proper photographer who doesn’t adopt rules just for the sake of them. He obviously needs to re-read my posts.
As for the camera, I bought the Nikon D850 because it was the last high spec reflex that Nikon were going to make and I just don’t personally like mirrorless EVFs.
Personally I find Canon cameras have noisier sensors and less dynamic range than, not just Nikon, but other makes as well. And I just like the look and feel of the Nikon DSLRs, to which I have added a battery grip to allow me to take portrait images without having to twist my wrists.
If I had unlimited funds, I think I might have gone for a Fuji system but I always have my LF camera for super hi-res work or when movements are required.
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