You may choose to export a DNG or TIFF file first and continue editing these files requiring one DOP for the RAW file and a different DOP file for the exported DNG or TIFF.
This helps to make sure that the sidecar belongs to the right file.
- file123.raw / file123.raw.dop
- file123.jpg / file123.jpg.dop
- etc.
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I see, thank you!
I had expected only edits for raw files to be saved in a sidecar.
And you generate your jpg, tiffs, etc. from the single raw file.
If I set my camera to record both RAW and JPEG files, I get two files with the same name, but with different extensions. I can edit both files differently and then, the .dop sidecars need to be different - and relate to the files thy belong to. And that’s why it makes sense to include the extension.
It’s really unfortunate that customers are having to do experiments to work out what the system does and to hypothesise how it works. Ideally this ought to be obvious from the user interface, or if not possible that way then from the manual.
The related problem I have is that I have all my photos on an old NAS system which may be on its last legs, and have now copied them to a new NAS system. I’d like to know (before I try it) whether, if I open DXO Photolab (version 7) and navigate to the Windows drive letter for the folders on the new NAS, whether I will have all the photos (I expect yes), all the star ratings and colour buttons I have used to categorise them (I don’t know) , and all the keyword assignments (I fear maybe not). Also will it go into a seemingly endless slowdowns as it tries to rebuild a new index or database or whatever it’s called? It seems some information is stored in the photos themselves, some in the index/database, and some might be stored in “sidecar files” (there seem to be two different flavours) if I had sidecar files enabled which I don’t think I do have. I went largely with the system default setup. (It also seems that the initial setup parameters have far-reaching effects in this regard, which are not well communicated).
I suppose if the index/database has hard-coded folder paths based on Windows drive letters rather than network locations, then I might be able to get an old index/database to work on the new NAS simply by remapping the drive letters, so the old NAS (which has always been “S:” could be something else, and the new drive could become “S:”.
The whole area may be more comprehensible to someone who has come to DXO PL from other software such as Adobe, but I haven’t. I’m also a bit disappointed that you seem to have to know how the system works to use it. Compare that to a car where you just have to use the controls (steering wheel, accelerator, brake etc) and don’t need to know what’s under the bonnet / hood.
@RobEW With respect to learning by discovery to be honest most products don’t really lift the bonnet to see what’s inside and they consider that is their business and not the users!?
With respect to your question about keeping the drive letter the same I am afraid it won’t work!
DxPL ignores the drive letter and uses the Drive identifier instead, arguably this allows drives to be removed from the system and then successfully rediscovered when they return!!
But unfortunately it means that there is no easy way to replace a drive with a replacement because DxPL does not provide a command for re-aligning a replacement drive.
I wrote a topic about this very issue but am having difficulty locating it!?
Have a read and I will keep an eye out for your response and I can “talk” you through the process if necessary.
Regards
Bryan
PS:- jump to the last post in the topic first and then look at the rest if necessary.
PPS:- Ignore the topic, you are using a NAS drive not an attached or inbuilt drive!
I have a NAS with two JBOD drives so I can look to see what needs to be done to move entries from pointing at one drive to the same directories on the other!
I guess what you wanted to say is " But undortunately it means that there is no easy way to replace a drive with a replacement because DxPL does NOT provide a command for re-aligning a replacement drive.)"
Write less, focus better and re-read more often.
@RobEW So in my case and probably in yours, both my NAS drives are connected at the same time X: and Y: in my case.
Effectively it is my original procedure but slightly easier!
For a network drive the UUID fields contains the drive letter X: in my case and that needs to be changed to the drive letter for the new NAS., Y: in my case.
I cannot test the case where the new NAS drive has the same drive letter as the old NAS drive but believe that it should simply work without any adjustments to the database!?
Please note that you must discover the directories on the new drive before using any projects that reference them!
@JoJu Thank you for the correction.
I do agree that it would be really helpful if DXO could make some provision for this common enough requirement (whether on directly attached drive or NAS)
It seems that rebuilding the database from the data works for most kinds of data but not projects and perhaps not keywords, and who knows what other exceptions there may be.
If DXO can’t do this (and I can see it may be problematical) it would at least be kind of them to say so in a suitably visible way, and tell you which forms of added value date are vulnerable to loss if a disc has to be copied. I have invested quite a lot of time in keywording my photos and I expect some people have invested much more.
Incidentally I see from my settings that I should have DOP files (whatever they are) though I can’t see them. I guessed they’d be in the same folder as the photos. There’s an option I don’t understand to do with synchronisation which is not ticked.
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Thanks - that’s encouraging. I might try reassigning drive letters and see what happens. Seems like less work and less risk than installing extra software which I’ve never used before, and using it to edit a file which is part of the product’s internal gubbins.
@RobEW The options are for DOPs
For metata, Rating, keywords either auto write back (there are implications with this) or manual write back or that is happening because you are using another product to maintain the metadata etc.
A RAW file with a DOP sidecar and an xmp sidecar
Part of the DOP
The xmp sidecar file, because the Auto Sync option is currently off on this machine I forced the xmp data to be written using the ‘Write to Image’ command.
@RobEW Always remember to take a dump of the database (at least one) before undertaking any form of “hack” that might not work.
- Dump database, one or twice or …
- Make system changes in your case, probably better with DxPL shut down!
- When the dust has settled on the system “hack” re-open DxPL and navigate to the NAS drive, now shiny and new in the same place as the old one.
- If you have ‘Projects’ check that they still work
- Otherwise create a ‘Project’ before Step 1 to use as the check ‘Project’.
Think I’m going to have to read the manual again. I’ve never touched the Metadata and Sidecars buttons in your third screenshot.
But when usage may lead to loss of datas or nightmare to change hardware config or spare datas between different stations or I don’t know what due to no documentation, there is a very, very big problem.
Isn’t it the case here ?
I’ve given up in reading all those huge topics related to this (.dop, .xmp, database, metadatas, projects problems and bugs), because english is not my native langage and this always leads to big headhache; but it seems there have been lot of users stuck because of primary bad choices done because no good documentation from DxO.
@RobEW I personally always create DOPs so the DOP settings you see in the snapshots are what I have always used, some users don’t but I think most have those settings. Without DOPs the loss of the database would be the end of all edits!
Some users keep edits in the DOP and throw the database away as often as possible etc. etc.
The Auto Sync settings is more contentious but less so if DxPL is where you assign keywords, rating etc. .Setting option 1 ON means both auto read and auto write, there is no auto read without auto write in DxPL!
The following may or may not help
and, I had forgotten this table, which needs checking but should be accurate and may be useful
@JoPoV I started digging into the working of DxPL because users ran into problems soon after the release of PL5 and I was interested in what was going on and why the concerns/issues.
Sorry my long posts, in my version of English, may not have helped as much as I might have hoped.
DxPL is not as bad with keywording as some make out but there are some issues as recent posts have identified. The documentation online has got better but still has some way to go.
Thank you for digging.
It’s not your fault if it is hard for me to follow up on some topics.
@JoPoV I will try to summarise things wherever possible, if I undertake more testing/investigating.
In the meantime be careful with that second table in my post because I need to review it for accuracy but not today!
My DOPs haven’t disappeared. Rediscovered now.
I had some kind of database problem a while back and Under ADVANCED HISTORY my photos all say “Imported on Nov 27th 2023”.
As far as I can see, DxPL doesn’t retain the detailed edit history once you’ve closed it.
The whole thing seems a bit of a jumble. Different bits of information are stored in different places, in some way dependent on parameters, and have different retention policies.
My printed User Guide (from an older release a while back) says very little about sidecars, DOPs and the database, and what it does say is postponed to the very last chapter “Menus and key shortcuts”. which is odd for something quite fundamental. I see the current version, not available as a pdf, has a bit more including some useful FAQs, but still insufficient I think.
My current settings are:
I’ve never touched the metadata and sidecars menus in the third screenshot
The documentation for this product is generally pretty good, but this area ought to be clearer. (Preferably rationalised in the software first)
P.S. Thanks so much for such helpful and useful replies / discussion
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The primary place is PhotoLab’s catalog a.k.a. database. DOP sidecars contain most of what is in the database, but a few things are not in them and this depends on whether one uses PhotoLab for Mac or Win operating systems and on the major release of PhotoLab.
What is included and what isn’t has been written over and over again in the forum, search and you might find!