Missing Fuji simulations

LOL. Every EULA has this line. This does not shield them from taking responsibility.

@Sandbo , you do know, don’t you, that if you have a FUJIFILM X-Trans camera and develop a raw image from that camera, that you will still have the film simulations that were delivered with that camera available to you in DxO software?





 and your point is?

So what is your gripe if you can still use your FUJIFILM camera’s film simulations on your raw .RAF files developed in DxO software?

I cannot use it on my Sony files, that is the problem. I could and it was advertised as part of the offer I paid for.

Is it clearer to you now?

1 Like

Yes, finally, that explains it. I’d started to wonder if you even had a FUJIFILM camera. :slightly_smiling_face: (I shoot with an X-T4 and a recently acquired X-T5.)

I doubt that you’ll care, but you have wandered into a gray area of intellectual property infringement. FUJIFILM licenses use of their film simulations only for their own cameras. DxO seems to have gotten in line with FUJIFILM on that.

Got it.

I obviously can’t tell what actually has happened, it seems DxO has been offering Fujifilm’s IPs as part of DxO’s product without authorization, and Fujifilm finally stepped up to stop them.

Probably these “Digital Films” should never have been available to non-Fujifilm camera files to begin with, but DxO’s way of marketing their product certainly did not make it clear, and I was using these Digital Films for the last two years believing they are part of DxO’s own properties.

Now with a so called adjustment, they took core features off the software that users were paying partially for is nothing short of ridiculous to me.

This is extremely absurd. I paid for Fuji film simulation, and now DxO has prohibited me from using this feature without making any public statement or apology.

You still have Fuji film emulations. What you no longer have is Fuji Digital Film emulations unless you are working on RAF or JPG files produced from a Fuji camera.

I tried saving the previous version, in case I had need to revert but, unfortunately, starting that after installing 8.5.1, attempting to start 8.5.0 showed an error message that the app was “damaged”.


But!!! they are still available in FP7 standalone as long as you don’t update it :wink:


Addenda

You can also change the camera make and model metadata in the file to something Fuji and get back the emulations in PL8.5.1 :joy:

2 Likes

This is very helpful, thank you

This trick works only in few cases and I wouldn’t expect it to work for this problem. Camera model is used for choosing raw data decoding method, so it may work only for models not too far apart. In most cases it leads to PL crash (e.g. if you change Coolpix P1000 to P1100 in NRW file, which looks doable at first glance).

Well it seems to work on JPG files

Sure, like for TIFFs, but that’s an extra step I would like to avoid (I don’t shoot Fuji). When needed, I switched from PL digital film to FP film emulations, which are still there. I need FP anyway, mostly because of fine-contrast adjustments.

I thought about this but then changing the EXIF will mess up other corrections wouldn’t it?

I know I can make a preset for changing the filter only for those files, and change the EXIF back, this is too twisted and inconvenient.

Not sure if DxO supports any sorts of API so we can hack it lol.

Was there an update to the v8.5.1 for Mac ?
The release notes don’t mention it and is still in v8.5.

I’ve just noticed the Fuji simulations were missing in PL!! :frowning_face: I used them more than the old film sims so this is a big loss.

I’ve just fired up FP7 and can see that they are still there so I will not update it for the time being.

yep, for me the unfortunate situation is that I have lots of presets based on fuji film sims which works also really fine also for Ricoh GRs. Now these presets can be applied for Fuji RAF files only.

I asked AI if “can a camera negative film and its effects, e.g. colour rendering, grain, be patented?” and learned (?) that it can in some cases, if there is a special chemical composition, for example. I then asked about Fuji and learned (?) that Fuji has patents which include various things including film. (I don’t have the time to search the various patent databases; I imagine that is not a trivial task). So; it looks like maybe Fuji does have some patents on their film. But - (not being a lawyer) - as others in this thread have suggested - is a patent on a physical and chemical process infringed by a software emulation of the visible results of the application of that process? I would doubt it.

One suggestion above is that DXO obtained the emulations by borrowing actual Fuji film software - which sounds like it would be a clear copyright (not patent) breach. If true; the source was the DPReview forum. (I would be surprised that DXO would do anything that raw).

I would guess FujiFilm made an “express request” just like the text said and DXO concurred out of a desire to keep in with Fujifilm and not make waves in the industry. (Perhaps they need to keep on side with camera manufacturers for help with lens calibration or other possible areas of collaboration).

(On the question of people feeling short-changed by DXO because they bought FP for its Fuji emulations; IF the effect was created by DXO then it is not “a program owned by a third party” and if they were not forced in a court to remove the feature I would hazard a guess that you would have a legitimate complaint against DXO. Not being a lawyer though).

I don’t know too much about FujiFilm. Do the digital cameras offer built-in FujiFilm ‘looks’ based on the film technology? If so - you can definitely see why Fujifilm might want to suppress emulations. Kodak, on the other hand, might see it as a kind of adverting.

This is unfortunate indeed. I find some of them quite pleasing too.
I don’t know if DXO stole any intellectual property or if they folded to fuji’s pressure. But it seems clear fuji see those simulations as a strong competitive advantage in the camera market. So DXO made their decision, based on legal or business reasons, it doesn’t matter for us anyway. Those color rendering profiles are gone for good for other camera brands owners.

But if DXO cannot provide them anymore, do we have a way to reproduce them ? I mean the software is capable of doing it. I imagine a combination of settings may reproduce the look we got with those color renderings.

I tried using some LUT found on the internet and tweaking some settings (exposure, contrast) and get some results that are close but not quite right (and others completely off). I also tried HSL and split toning but i’m not used to those tools and i didn’t produced usable results.

Do more experienced users may have inputs on what would be the best method to use to achieve the same results as the color rendering with other tools ? Probably some users may be interested in sharing presets replicating the looks from those “digital films”.

1 Like