Feature request: reference original embedded in RAW

I use PL3 for 90% of my RAW conversions but the ‘compare’ function is relative useless because it uses RAW only (on Nikon) and not the embedded JPG of the RAW as reference!

I would love to set the reference for RAW files to embedded JPG so I can compare to what the camera rendered the shot and not how a completely unprocessed shot looks like!

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Why not just open the jpeg in another file viewer app?

An embedded in-camera processed JPEG is not really a reference. If you are processing raw files rather than using JPEGs SOOC why do you need to compare them. Frankly I don’t care what my SOOC JPEGS look like. I just process my raw files until I’m happy with the results.



I think the slowness of the “pop” due the working of the optical correction makes the culling inside PL a sluggisch methode. So a “turn optical correction of” just view raw would speedup the task.

I think most pain would be gone if a culling in the filmstrip inside the library is only a preview non corrected so no “pop” delay and when hit “fullscreen” the opticalcorrection is getting active for closer look. Then you don’t need the embedded jpeg for preview.

i do the first culling outside PL with Faststone Image Viewer by using the SOOC-jpegs as reference. (soocs are fine for examination and if your not have 1000 /month images not very much work to delete when used.)
Then separate the Rawfiles (easy every rawfile with no twin soocjpeg is waste) i want to load in to PL and tagg them with xnviewmp for a xmp file.
other people are using FRV instead and have no soocs.

Then i open PL and start processing wile do a final choose or not. (much less waiting for the ““pop” i am ready to show”)

The request for faster view in library is a old request and now the library is getting to be a DAM it is even more a priority to gain some viewing speed.

the complete unedited RAW I do not care at all because I never can/would use it. The Preview JPG is at least the reference to what I saw in the camera and how it worked with camera setting!

The internal preview picture could be displayed very fast and would reduce the need of additional processing also.

On top of that, at least for Nikon case, the internal preview is how Nikon’s RAW converter convert the RAW without additional changes as a reference.
In other programs like On1 you even have an AI filter which tries to set lightning/contrast/HDR to what the internal preview looks like to use it as a sort of default for the picture.

Sure !?
Already explained.
In this case, any JPEG viewer is for you !


In that case, why bother taking the RAW at all? Why not just take jpeg only and use them?

It seems that you do not want to understand.
I just say nobody (and no other RAW converter) uses just the RAW file as reference.
I know that I can look at the file with normal windows even but if I click on ‘compare button’ on PL3 I want to use just the embedded file as reference to compare what I edited to what original was!
I do not want to go out of DXO to see original.

I habitually shoot JPEG + RAW and like to see what the camera came up with as a reference. DxO’s default RAW rendering without corrections often gets Olympus OM-D colors and tonality way wrong, so it isn’t particularly useful as a base for comparison. Only once in a while do I use the JPEG. Mostly, I just like to compare particular color and tonal renderings for ideas. In PhotoLab, you can select what the Compare button will use as a reference image - so why not include the embedded JPEG image as an option for that? I like the idea. Thanks for suggesting it!

But this isn’t a votable topic, so all I can do is like the original post.

It seems that you do not want to understand.

If you are using Photoshop, after you have “opened” the RAW file using Adobe Camera Raw, you do not have access to the original RAW in Photoshop, since that was “converted”, usually to TIFF or PSD, but could be jpeg.

The original RAW file is never edited, with Photoshop it is always transformed by ACR to a file format that can be edited.

Photoshop doesn’t provide a compare feature but ACR does. The “before” provided by ACR is going to be the original, untreated RAW image, not the embedded jpeg.

So, your assertion that “no other RAW converter uses just the RAW file as reference” is not true.

If you really want to see the embedded jpeg version of a RAW file, you’re usually going to need to use the camera manufacturers own RAW software.

With PhotoLab, if you want to use a jpeg file as the source for a comparison, then you need to open a jpeg file for editing but, if you open a RAW file for editing, then it will be the RAW file that will be compared.

As I said before, if you “never can/would use” the RAW file, why on earth are you taking RAW images on your camera? It just doesn’t make sense.


If you shoot raw only the embedded file is a SOOC-jpeg style on low resolution. thumbnail . (take a blacknwhite in camera style choosen and windows would show a B&W image on the rawpreview hence the thumbnail version of the sooc-jpeg .
Great for windows to preview the raw in explorer but no good for actual judging the image closely.
only way to that is using a raw capable viewer or the real SOOC-jpeg , need to shoot jpeg plus raw.

So if you like to see the “original” you need to shoot high quality SOOC-jpeg+raw. And you can use the DXO setting to show jpeg. and maybe even to preset “no correction made” if you don’t rename the raw and jpeg they show up next to each other. There isn’t, jet, a splitscreen for two images choosen by you. (request is in backlog) nut toggle by arrows wil help to see preview raw at present processed state and SOOC-jpeg just behind each other.
(infact i think the filmstrip is showing the embedded jpeg)

No that’s not how it works. The before is the raw file with the default settings (which does not mean all sliders at 0) or any state of the history you want to choose as the reference.

There is no way to display the embedded jpeg though, I don’t know any software that does it.

In dxo I always found the before/after comparison useless: as the OP I don’t see the point to compare with the unedited raw file.
Now that you can choose a virtual copy as reference, it’s a nice progress, but it should be possible without creating a virtual copy.

Windows does that, reading embedded jpeg as thumbnail display.

FastRawViewer will display the embedded jpeg.

With my Nikon D810, the RAW contains three jpegs: two smaller ones for preview purposes and one full size. They can be extracted by using ExifTool Fromm the command line.

If, as sometimes happens, the RAW file is already nearly perfect, then it is often useful to show it. The jpeg of a RAW/jpeg pair does not show the shot as the photographer saw it, it has already been processed but the camera software.

However, from the title to this thread, it is certainly not the “original” that is embedded in the RAW; rather, a jpeg is constructed from the original RAW data and embedded in the RAW file.

[quote=“Joanna, post:14, topic:11229, full:true”]

FastRawViewer will display the embedded jpeg.[/quote]
Yes, my mistake my sentence was incomplete :slight_smile:
I wanted to say “raw converter software” not “software”. Most image viewers use the embedded jpeg it’s the point of embedded jpegs.

Let’s say that most raw converter software do not allow the jpeg visualisation (except sometimes for a short time waiting for the software to process the file).
That would be a very useful feature though, for people starting to use RAW.
Once you get use to your raw converter, it’s not that useful anymore.

I think the function was first made to get a “wow” factor: see how the picture is improved by dxo processing!

Anyway, that would be a very nice improvement to get a really configurable “before” state for the comparison.
The virtual copy workaround is nice, but it’s only a workaround.

Why not tweak the original raw in file the camera manufacturer’s proprietary software, and then export 8 or 16 bit tiffs? The end result of camera maker software>TIFF>DXO can give better results.
For most practical purposes I have found it is not worth the trouble, because DXO does an excellent job. But, if I screw up the shot in camera and need to fix raw files, I always fix the files in the camera manufacturer’s software and then export tiffs to DXO.
Hope that helps!

I was editing nightshots and my camera has “long exposure correction” which suppresses red glow.
When i opend the raw file it first shows that suppressed file,nice no red glow, and then pops in to the rawfile default which had no redglow reduction.
So at first it uses the embedded jpeg for the filmstrip thumbnail.

Lots of reasons. PhotoLab reveals more of the image from ultra wide lenses, allowing an unconstrained crop. Better noise reduction, RAW sharpening, lens corrections, aberration removal…

Photo Mechanic, Your camera manufacturers proprietary software. And although grudgingly, with a warning and a whine, Lightroom CC. Though if you let it, LRCC will encourage you to dump the raw with the embedded jpeg and all the settings from your camera in favor of DNG.
Photog whine list:
Whine 1: Whine 2: And since I am short of time: Whine Bazillion:

Yep I agree 100%, all that is really important if you get it wrong in camera.