DxO marketing angle — pot versus kettle?

That’s from an email I received from DxO today. Quite why they’re trying to sell me anything is a bit of a mystery considering I own the latest versions of PL, FP, and VP.

I looked at those bolded phrases and I thought I could certainly get behind the last two. 100%. The one-time purchase? Kinda. Maybe I’ll get behind that 75%. Moving from Lightroom? Here I’m falling well below the 50% mark.

I would, for some time now, have said LR’s Library module is far more powerful than PL’s, but I concede that for most people, PL’s is quite functional.

But recently, I have been trying to up my game with my wildlife photos (hey, I live in New Zealand where we only have two native mammals and they’re both bats, so let’s say bird photos). The techniques I have been learning have been taught on LR with a caveat “you can probably apply these same techniques to whatever software you’re using.” This is almost true.

Because a core part of the techniques involves masking. A bright yellow finch on a simple stick against a clean, green background? That’s pretty easily achievable in PL. Less so if there are multiple colours (often including black and white) against a varied background.

Control Points and Lines are great. I’ve used them a lot. I have also fairly often struggled with them and had to fall back to manual painting. But in PL, manual painting is just that. You’re in control with little-to-no help. Even Auto-brush relies on some fairly clear delineation. And, although I’ve not done brush masks for a while in PL, my memory was they are not terribly responsive once a significant amount of brush strokes are done.

Contrasting this to LR, I click “select subject” and a good proportion of the time it’s at least 80% accurate. So sure, it reasonably often needs editing, but even brushing in LR is more responsive and functional. Adding brushwork to a generated mask is simple, especially with easy access to “un-painting” that only affects your previous brush strokes. But you can also use object select very often to do the work for you.

So yes, sometimes there are quite a few steps to get the mask required, but they are easy steps to perform. Contrast this to a mass of Control Points, always needing negative points to stop spillover, and it just does not compare.

I see Control Point masks in the same role as gradients. They are area masks, not object masks, which is what these wildlife techniques use.

I do also miss some of the PL sliders. LR’s Clarity and Texture are decent, but not quite up to what PL’s (or rather FP’s) fine contrast sliders can do. Then again… if I want to apply clarity to the whites or highlights… there are masks for that.

There’s a fairly deep irony in this post. Not so long ago, others here were claiming AI masks (such as those in LR) were needed in PL and I claimed they were largely useless, based on my limited testing of “very easy” examples (such as a white helicopter against a clear blue sky) which weren’t “one shot” correct. I was wrong.

What changed is that I’ve seen the use cases for AI masks as a really good starting point that is somewhat often the whole task. Use cases that I desire to use.

Boiling it down, I think LR is leaps ahead on masking “things”. I do, however, have a real hard time passing up the initial RAW conversion offered by DxO Modules. Plus, of course, noise reduction.

As an experiment, I recently tried to recreate one of my LR edits purely in PL. I failed miserably because of the masks required. I then tried to recreate one of my older PL edits in LR without using PL at all. That also failed badly on account of the basic image quality, which was pedestrian at best.

I’ve considered whether I should simply ditch PL and get PR instead. At the moment, already owning the PL license, plus FP and VP (which, honestly, I probably wouldn’t miss 98% of the time) says the value proposition in switching to PR is a little hard to justify unless I am completely jumping out of PL. Also… right this minute… I don’t have a LR-native capability for one small PL feature a lot of people probably don’t use, but that I use for every photo I publish… per-photo watermarks. LR’s capability is archaic. If I could figure out how to make it easier in LR (I want to fine tune every watermark for base colour, placement, and transparency) then it might be the final push to PR.

Unless… PL9 ups the game. I’m not aware of planned features this year (though I have a sense of one which may be coming), but if they do not include better masking options, I may, for the first time since I discovered PL3, sit this one out. I’d still get upgrade pricing from PL8 to PL10, so that’s two versions to win me over.

All because hard-edged masks are a pain in PL.

So when DxO ask “Are you tired of paying every month for software that doesn’t deliver?” I’d like to reframe the question. “Are you tired of paying a large yearly lump sum for infrequent updates?” And honestly, LR has been delivering new functionality often. Some of it is catch-up, but, well, PL has catch-up to do as well.

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Large lump sum? I got my Adobe subscription with Black Friday discounts that made the yearly cost something like USD 75. Compared to upgrade costs for PL, FP and VP, Adobe offers a good deal - and a choice of plugins.

Catch-up? From a “darkroom” point of view, PhotoLab is fairly capable - if one’s gear is supported. But it fails in respect to reliability, maintainability and - UI quality.

Well, comparing can spoil one’s happiness. The two bundles are made for different groups of users and instead of deciding either/or, we could decide both/none.

My point entirely. The rephrased question was asking about PhotoLab.

I got that. DxO’s current pricing and policy to move features to additional products is not helping them either.

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I agree. The lacking asset management might not be the end of the world for most of us, but masking is. More and more often I have to rely on Affinity Photo to select parts of images that need some editing. Would love to have some AI powered masking in PL.

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Eventually incremental upgrades will wear thin but im not about to change yet.

One would think a revamp will happen PL9 or 10.

Are you tired of paying every month for software that doesn’t deliver?

I started with Photolab v5 in 2021, and I never looked back; I remain a huge fan. While it lacks the automated AI masks of LR, I find the available tools easy to use and powerful e.g. control points and lines. However, prospective users should know that the idea of a “perpetual license” (“lack of a monthly subscription”) is a bit disingenuous. I was perfectly content to continue with PL 5, since none of the new tools were particularly compelling. But after just 3 years, DxO dropped support for the new Mac OS (Sequoia) released in 2024, and I was obliged to pay full cost for PL 8, since there was no upgrade path from versions 5 to 8. While I obviously understand why new OS support cannot be indefinite, 3 years isn’t very long, and it would in fact have been cheaper to stay with Lightroom’s monthly subscription, more so because some useful PL tools (e.g. Luminosity Masks, Style Tones) apply only if Nik or Film Pack are installed, which incur additional costs. To me, it makes little sense to separate the luminosity mask from PL’s other local area selection tools, other than justifying efforts to “upsell” the add-ons. Don’t get me wrong - it’s a great package, but their pricing policy does not really differ substantially from Adobe’s, which prospective buyers should understand to avoid disappointment.

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That is another factor. Which is why I find it bemusing that people will pay for “perpetual licenses” because they dislike subscriptions. In the end, often the only difference is the payment schedule.

DxO’s “n-2” upgrade policy is the thorn in their side. It’s quite restrictive in the Mac ecosystem. Windows users have the “advantage” that their OS is only updated on a glacial scale so very old software will likely continue to work for years. In the Mac ecosystem, OS change is delivered on a yearly cadence and reasonably often it is breaking change.

The other aspect that is problematic to many is camera/lens support. I know in the past new modules were only made available in the latest versions, although I think that may have changed recently? I don’t know if there are technical reasons why newer modules are only supported by newer software. It doesn’t seem logical to me, but then I have no idea how they actually work.

Returning to my original point… I was perfectly happy with PhotoLab (notwithstanding I use LR for maintaining my library) until I found a compelling processing methodology that strongly favours hard-edged masks.

If I score PL at 7 out of 10 for library management, I’d have to score it 4 out of 10 for hard-edged masking. I’d possibly upgrade it to 5 or 6 if it didn’t bog down after a large number of strokes.

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Actually, I think I’m being a little generous scoring 4 for hard-edged masking. If I score it overall for masking, I might drop it to 3.

One of the most powerful features of LR is being able to intersect masks. E.g. select the subject (hard-edge) and intersect with a gradient. So while LR does not have control points, it comes close by having colour and luminance masks which can be easily intersected with any other type of mask. That’s not exactly the same as Control Points/Lines, but it does cover many situations where you might use them in PL.

and it looks like they have scrubbed those deals according to Adobe press release I got

I’m on PL7 Elite and waiting for PL9 Elite to come out in October with an upgrade price. Biennial upgrades work better for me as I don’t buy new cameras every year, perhaps once every few years. Dxo PL should be seen as biennial subscription which you can discontinue anytime. If you resume within 2 years you get the “upgrade price”. Longer than that and you pay the full price.

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It’s not just new cameras, it’s new features. I think the core features — the noise reduction and sharpening — are very mature now, but for a few years there, it was advancing significantly with every release.

If DxO sticks to this schedule, the next version will be released in just over three months. So wait a bit longer before you decide… You have nothing to lose right now.

And the email you received from DxO is marketing – nothing more, nothing less. :slight_smile:

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Since in the last two cycles PhotoLab was released in September, PL 9 may only be around two months away. PhotoLab 8 was released on September 17, 2024.

Mark

Not quite. With most subscription models if you choose to discontinue the subscription then you lose the ability to edit any past image. And at that stage you are forced either to buy an alternative non-sub editor or never edit those images again. The only one example I know of is Capture One which gives you a 20% discount credit for each continuous year of a subscription against their perpetual licence (same software, just sold ‘as-is’ on the day with no future updates). And yes, after five years of subs you get a perpetual licence free. They accurately describe it as an off-ramp. Previously I avoided subs for this single reason. With the off-ramp in place I am content to pay the subs model. Subs models are generally cheaper if you upgrade each year but more expensive if you jump year(s).

Clive

Thanks for this post. I have to admit, moving support for the GFX100RF from July to September has me worried they will want me to purchase a DxO 9 for a camera that should have been supported sooner. If that happens I am probably done with buying new versions of DxO.

To be fair, I came in at DxO 4, for my m43 camera, and that software still works with those cameras, and because of that I came back to DxO after playing with LR.

That said, I may just go 100% linux and use Darktable and Gimp, and just deal with my files from there. Not as easy to learn, but once I learn it, I am need not worry about obsolesence…

Please can you give your basis for that statement?

As far as I can see, and I’m happy to be corrected as I know little of Fuijifilm cameras, the GFX100RF only came out at the end of March 2025 and it has a hefty price tag so now (i.e. only about 3.5 months later) it’s market share is unlikely to be high. Given those two factors, I’m not surprised DxO are yet to support this camera.

And Luminar Neo. Which perfectly illustrates my point. Subscriptions are varied. Some are punitive, some are not. It also depends how you use the software and what your habits are. I know of people to whom the idea of ever revisiting an old photo is ridiculous. They’ve done the work, exported the JPEG, why would they need to edit it again? To such people, a subscription term that says the software will stop working is a non-issue.

“Subscription” only means a continuous payment plan. Everything else is variable. That’s why I find it silly that some people say “I will never pay a subscription”.

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