Do DxO optical modules apply on DNG files (from Nikon)

[LSe (Lavrentios Servissoglou)]

I have a lot of RAW images from a Nikon D70 camera. They are all converted to DNG. PL 6.5 does recognize them (correct camera and correct lens), download the optical module but does not apply it. Is this due to the DNG format?

Screenshot of an DNG image with the missing optical module:

Screenshot of the loaded optical module:

Any tips and hints how I may apply the already loaded optical module to the DNG image?

Thanks in advance.

[rrblint (Mark)]

If you have downloaded the optics module then it should be applied by PL6(as long as the camera/lens combination is supported by PL6 and the DNG was produced by an Adobe product). Please be advised however that PL6 is very finicky with DNG files and could possibly ignore it on a whim.

[platypus (Canon & Mac (Intel and M1))]

Similar situation described here:

Incorrect lens identification since 6.5 update

But…Adobe DNG files converted from EOS R files also don’t have the lens correction/Optical module capability…there isn’t any lens sharpeness etc with dng files, regardless of which lens is used. Even with my Canon 70-200 (EF) F2.8 II lens, or another Sigma lens…or my Tamron 45mm lens. But, with the CR3 files, optical corrections including lens sharpness are available with all lens combinations. Well that is up until v6.5 in my case.

[LSe (Lavrentios Servissoglou)]

Thanks. This means, that I have to make the corrections, if needed, manually? If this is true, than it’s fine with me.

[platypus (Canon & Mac (Intel and M1))]

@LSe

I have to make the corrections, if needed, manually?

It’s a matter of personal choice. You can live with what you’ve got, use something else, try to work around difficulties…or get in touch with support.dxo.com (this forum is a user forum and DxO seems to read posts, but rarely offer any insights) and try to stay in touch.

Modifying DPL database entries is relatively simple, editing lens information in a RAW file is more complicated. I consider both to be workarounds until DxO comes up with a definitive solution.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@LSe

They are all converted to DNG

Why? What was wrong with the native NEF format? That lens on that camera is listed as supported…

[LSe (Lavrentios Servissoglou)]

As you may see, the images were done 16 years ago. Converted with Adobe Lightroom Classic (one of the first versions). During this time I was not sure if NEF will survive the coming ages, so I converted it to a “standard”. Now, due to the improved support of XMP files of PL 6.5 I try to switch to PL - go away from LR.

[uncoy (Alec Kinnear)]

@LSe

the images were done 16 years ago. Converted with Adobe Lightroom Classic (one of the first versions). During this time I was not sure if NEF will survive the coming ages, so I converted it to a “standard”.

I lost about three months of RAW images with similarly naive thoughts. “If Adobe is pushing DNG, DNG will be the long term standard, not the manufacturer’s custom RAW formats.”

We all know how that worked out. The images in question are either Pentax *st DS images or Canon 20D RAW converted to DNG. PhotoLab won’t open them. Something or another will. Just glad I stopped after three months. I wasted a lot of time creating an automated workflow to convert the RAW files to DNG, rename them and then delete the RAW files.

Lesson: don’t bother with any conversions to DNG or any other format. Work from the original .nef, .cr2, .cr3 whatever.

[mwsilvers (Mark - New Jersey, USA)]

@uncoy

Lesson: don’t bother with any conversions to DNG or any other format. Work from the original .nef, .cr2, .cr3 whatever.

Amen to that. @LSe could always have converted his old NEF files to DNG at some future date when it became clear that Nikon’s NEF format would no longer be supported. His decision was premature. Perhaps the DNG format will someday be the standard raw format used by all camera manufacturers, and older raw files converted to DNG will be identical to DNG files straight out of the camera. Until that happens, I’m keeping my NEF and CR2 files.

Mark

[zkarj (macOS, PLe+FP+VP, Pentax)]

We’re talking about software and time — nothing is guaranteed to work except what you have in front of you (working) right now. @LSe may or may not regret that 16 year old decision (seems not) but it wasn’t ‘wrong’ or even ‘ill advised’. It was a decision made at the time with the knowledge they had available. Everyone here raise your hand if you’ve never made a decision you later wish you’d done differently…

…no, thought not.

I converted all my Pentax PEF files to DNG (using Lightroom Classic) many years ago, after setting my camera to henceforth produce them natively. Never regretted it. PhotoLab opens every single one from every supported camera. As does every single other piece of software I’ve tried. In fact… some software will open the DNG that could not open the PEF (I still have a few PEF copies lying around).

[JAmedia.uk (Chris Hills)]

There are several discussions along this line on here. The fact is PL does NOT support DNG. PL supports a very narrow subset of DNG with caveats. Other software does properly support DNG PL doesn’t

PL supports DNG if produced by Adobe converter and it is a camera that PL recognizes and it is a specific type of DNG.

For example, PL does not support DNGs or NEF’s produced by the Nikon Coolscan film/slide scanner as used by professional bodies ie museums, photo collections etc the world over( the film scanner that is still worth more 2nd hand than it did new) and the VuScan software. This is important as the world’s museums, archives, collections and photo libraries globally all standardized on DNG. There are billions of images scanned in this process and format.

Dxo needs to get proper DNG support into PL.

[LSe (Lavrentios Servissoglou)]

My DNGs are all converted by Adobe DNG converter or by Adobe Lightroom Classic. PL has downloaded the right module, but it does not apply it to the images :-/

[zkarj (macOS, PLe+FP+VP, Pentax)]

@JAmedia.uk

The fact is PL does NOT support DNG.

You are completely correct. By the same token, PL does NOT support RAW. It only supports a very narrow subset of RAW with caveats. It supports RAW only if it is from a camera that it recognises.

DxO clearly say PL supports cameras and lenses, whether the files are in native RAW/DNG or Adobe-converted DNG format (this bit is a bonus), because it is founded/marketed on the basis that it has the best Bayer (and now X-Trans) decoding in the business.

DNG is mentioned in only one place on the product pages, and immediately there qualified…

Support for a wide range of file types: RAW, TIFF, JPEG, and DNG*

Support for Fujifilm X-Trans RAW files ELITE ONLY

*RAW and DNG files from supported cameras only. For a full list, click here.

Saying PL “supports DNG” or “does NOT support DNG” is not addressing the issue. @LSe has a legitimate concern because their files are supposed to be supported according to the definition above.

Having PL support “generic DNG” is like requesting TIFF support if it didn’t have it. It will allow you to use most of the tools in PL, but industry leading denoising and sharpening are off the table. There are tens of other applications that will do the same job, including several free ones.

@JAmedia.uk

Dxo needs to get proper DNG support into PL.

I suspect they won’t agree with you. I think their time would be better spent supporting more cameras and lenses.

[platypus (Canon & Mac (Intel and M1))]

@zkarj

Saying PL “supports DNG” or “does NOT support DNG” is not addressing the issue

…the issue being that lens corrections are not being applied properly, which reduces DPL’s value drastically in this respect…unless the Adobe converters already apply sharpness, CA and vignetting corrections.

[zkarj (macOS, PLe+FP+VP, Pentax)]

The issue, as reported by @LSe, is PhotoLab not honouring their specific case of converted files. It sounds like a bug if it’s downloading the module and then not using it, and it should be reported as such.

That’s not a value proposition for PhotoLab for the masses, it’s one user’s issue with the software not behaving like it is documented to.

PhotoLab is certainly not devalued with my thousands of Adobe-converted DNGs that work just fine 100% of the time.

[George]

I think it’s a problem with PL6.
When using PL5 there’s no problem. Both DNG and NEF are processed.

George

[platypus (Canon & Mac (Intel and M1))]

Did some testing…on macOS Monterey on 5K iMac 2019…and found that the issue was a tad more complicated. Let’s see what I did…or jump to conclusions

Part 1

• Ran my test images through Adobe DNG Converter and opened them in DPL5.
• Selected all (RAW and DNG) images and applied the DxO Standard preset
• Reduced the set of corrections to Vignetting, Sharpness, CA and Distortion
• Checked all images and found that all of them had the same settings
• Manually exported setting sidecars (.dop files) and duplicated them with Finder for backup
• Quit DPL5

Part 2

• Opened DPL6 and manually imported the setting sidecar
• Checked all images and found that
• • All tools were still active (and WCS was included and set to DxO Wide)
• • Sharpness had dropped out of “Auto” mode
• • • Slider Global was still on 0 as in DPL5, but the magic wand was off
• • • When I activated the magic wand, Global jumped to +1.00
• Manually exported setting sidecars (.dop files) and duplicated them with Finder for backup
• Quit DPL6

Analyzes

• Compared settings sidecars of one image and found that DPL5 and 6 use different entries.
  Additionally to writing BlurActiveAuto = true as DPL5 does,
  DPL6 adds an entry that says BlurIntensity = 1.
  
  
• Compared RAW and DNG settings sidecars of one image in DPL5 and DPL6 respectively and found that the settings and override sections are identical

Conclusion

• Considering the different entries produced by DPL5 and DPL6 for Lens Sharpness, I assume that DPL6 expects something that DPL5 doesn’t deliver and therefore drops out of Auto, even though the respective entry says that Auto is set indeed.

Please note that this test was done with DPL on macOS and that DPL on Windows might have been programmed in a way that makes this test utterly irrelevant useless for bug hunting. Someone could repeat the test in order to see what happens under Windows.

Update: DPL 6.5.1 applies all its corrections to all the DNG files I tested with.

[LSe (Lavrentios Servissoglou)]

DPL 6.5.1? If I check for updates DPL 6.5.0 says it is up to date (Windows 11).

[platypus (Canon & Mac (Intel and M1))]

@LSe

DPL 6.5.1? If I check for updates DPL 6.5.0 says it is up to date

Looks like Win users have to wait…

[uncoy (Alec Kinnear)]

@platypus

Compared settings sidecars of one image and found that DPL5 and 6 use different entries.
Additionally to writing BlurActiveAuto = true as DPL5 does,
DPL6 adds an entry that says BlurIntensity = 1.

Thanks for your hard work doing this detailed analysis, Platypus.