Wrong UI logic in Local Adjustments

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

I found an interesting video the other day, that described how to mix AI and non-AI masks.

The presenter described a problem I had come across when mixing an AI mask with something non-AI, like a Control Point, and how he solved it.

Take an image with a sky, which also has parts of the sky that are not contiguous…

Apply a sky AI mask…

Notice that there are small areas of sky that are not masked. So, I decided to add a couple of Control Points to add into the main mask…

Now, the problem is that I cannot adjust the Selectivity or Diffusion, because the Mask Selectivity sub-palette that contains those sliders is not present on the right toolbar.

However, if I select he Sky mask and then reselect the Control Point mask, those sliders magically appear…

Without access to those sliders, the mask cannot be limited to just the blue, so I get parts of the wheelhouse selected…

But, after deselecting and reselecting the Control Point mask, I can then alter the Selectivity and Diffusion of just the blue sky in the gap covered by the Control Point is included and only that area is added to the combined mask instead of the whole Control Point area.

This is a subtle problem and, if you have never tried to add something non-AI, like a Control Point or Control line to an AI mask, you might have assumed that it simply wasn’t possible to change those mask options that are not present in one mask but are in another.

I am going to report this as a bug, linking to this thread so, if you have found anything else related to it, please add it in to this thread.

[mwsilvers (Mark - New Jersey, USA)]

@Joanna

I am going to report this as a bug, linking to this thread so, if you have found anything else related to it, please add it in to this thread.

I think this may be more of a design limitation rather than a bug.

Mark

[Wolfgang ([ Win11, PL9, FP7, VP5, Nik8 + 3.3 ])]

No such ‘problem’ here.

.

at the RHS (reminder)

• Clicking/moving the mouse pointer
  over the master mask
  

  
  
  or the sub-mask
  
  
  
  displays all mask selections.

• But clicking/moving the mouse pointer
  over the icon of the sub-mask
  

  
  
  displays only the selected mask.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mwsilvers

I think this may be more of a design limitation rather than a bug.

I can’t see how it can be a limitation.

If I place a Control Point as a new mask, the Chroma, Luma and Diffusion sliders are available…

If I place a second ControlPoint as a new mask, the same thing happens…

But, if I add a Control Point as a sub-mask, at any level…

… the three sliders are not visible to start with but, if I then deselect and then reselect the second mask, the three sliders appear just as they did when adding the first mask…

After all, both masks are at the same level in the hierarchy and they can be adjusted independently of each other…

Chroma 0 - Luma 50 - Diffusion 0

Chroma 100 - Luma 32 - Diffusion 0

It all seems to be working perfectly for me - except for the need to deselect/reselect
the mask that was added as a new sub-mask.

Once the second sub-mask has been added, you can switch to another image and, on returning to the original image, you will see the three sliders visible on both sub-masks. It is only immediately after adding the sub-mask that the sliders do not show until you “refresh” the image.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

I don’t see. how that is relevant. The problem its with the mask options sub-palette underneath the list of masks.

[Wolfgang ([ Win11, PL9, FP7, VP5, Nik8 + 3.3 ])]

@Joanna – This may not be relevant to your ‘problem’ (it simply works here), but it can be helpful when checking.

[swmurray]

I cannot replicate that issue. Perhaps I am not following the same sequence.

Here’s what I tried:

1. created AI based “Sky” mask
2. added a CP submask to fill-in area not found by “Sky” mask. I can immediately adjust the luma, chroma, and diffusion. It seems to work exactly like a “normal” CP mask.

So tried to find any sequence that might cause loss of these three sliders.
-Closed, the masking tool, then switched focus to another palette and back. Still had direct access to theses three sliders.
-Created a second CP submask and had independent control of the sliders (different settings for each CP).
-Added negative CPs to the first CP submask to block out some spillage, and still had control of the CP submask sliders.

I could not find a sequence that did not allow control of the sliders. (when the appropriate submask is selected.

Running on a Mac OS 26 with PL 9.2.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

Could you take a screenshot showing the palette just after adding the second Control Point?

[swmurray]

@Joanna

Here’s the screenshots just before and after adding the CP.

The Chroma/Luma/Diffusion sliders were active.

Quickly added a series of CPs to mask sky behind the Aspen trees, so not to precise. Modified the Luma and Chroma sliders independently for a few CPs, then decided to add more CPs. Here’s a file link to Sony ARW file, DOP file. and a few more screen shots.
Hopefully this is helpful.

(https://1drv.ms/f/c/dd26d59f3c80403c/IgASJEK6xjYuTJ23YrYKz9kKAabNhHZ6tYSASsGpmQ3BmGg?e=D9Te1s)

Note:
Did this on a fresh copy of the ARW file to avoid any question of past editing.

[zkarj (macOS, PLe+FP+VP, Pentax)]

Uhhh, there are so many UI bugs with masking, I didn’t bother to mention this one. It just took my logical brain a few moments to wonder “what if I…?” and I got the sliders up. Been doing it ever since.

Also, when you click on a mask in the list, you might see the list selection change, but that doesn’t always mean the active mask changes. I see this one all the time at it is so much more annoying. Sometimes I can click around a bit (same approach as above) and it will sort itself out. Sometimes I can switch off the LA palette and switch it back on and it sorts itself out. Sometimes I can switch to a different image and back and it sorts itself out. If none of those work, quitting and restarting PhotoLab has so far not failed.

Oh, and then there are the times it just doesn’t display the mask overlay and won’t display the mask overlay.

That’s just what I can get from the top of my head.

[Wolfgang ([ Win11, PL9, FP7, VP5, Nik8 + 3.3 ])]

@swmurray

… Here’s a file link to Sony ARW file, DOP file …

Interesting …

Since I had read that DOP files are not compatible between Mac and Windows, I tried it myself and initially couldn’t see the mask overlays. I tried explicitly accessing the mask view, but that didn’t help. Then PL9 crashed.

Repeated the same process … crash.

Restarted PL once more, quickly created an additional virtual copy, and deleted your LAs … now everything was running stably. – Then I added AI sky and CPs and was able to see the mask overlays as described here.

DSC04186.ARW.dop (29,9 KB)

[swmurray]

Your DOP file opens just fine here. I see your VC with orange label.
(Fresh copy of the ARW in a separate folder aside your DOP.)

[corgi]

Don’t worry, this should be ironed out by PL 10.3.

[stuck (stuck [Canon, PL9+FP7+VP5, Win11+RTX4050 6GB])]

@corgi

this should be ironed out by PL 10.3.

That soon!? Can’t wait…

[zkarj (macOS, PLe+FP+VP, Pentax)]

On top of the stuff I described above, new today (perhaps new to 9.2.1) is a neat feature of the healing tool. At some point when I’m doing healing, it jumps out of that mode and into Local Adjustment mode with a mask already selected! Three times.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

Now, this might seem like a stupid question but… it is possible to use the healing tool whilst the LA palette is selected. Selecting the healing tool does not deselect that palette. Could it be that you just didn’t notice you had left it active?

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

Well, DxO support are playing games again instead of getting off their backsides and solving this bug.

I have told them this fault exists, no matter what the Mac model, but they are still insisting on a diagnostics report before simply reproducing the fault.

They just marked the issue “Solved”

[swmurray]

@Joanna

I have told them this fault exists, no matter what the Mac model, …

Au contraire.
No UI logic fault here. Mac M4 Max, Tahoe 26.0.1 using PL 9.2.0 build 31. (did not download the optional update for the Tahoe 26.1 issues)

I could not replicate what you showed based on the order of selecting masks. Regardless of the sequence, switching between masks, mask creation order, moving submasks between masks, or toggling masks/submasks on/off, both UI windows showed the expected results.

Hopefully others with the same issue will post to see which Macs or software configurations are experiencing this issue (and file bug reports).
I am sure it is frustrating.

[John7 (John Barrett)]

@Joanna

They just marked the issue “Solved

My last one (sony 90mm macro distance correction still not being done) they told me a fix may be done, that it hasn’t been done as yet, and closed it as solved
Support have always been poor but are really totally usless now. I dont know if those who pay are getting any better but I haven’t seen any comments from anyone using the paid for support.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@swmurray

I could not replicate what you showed based on the order of selecting masks. Regardless of the sequence, switching between masks, mask creation order, moving submasks between masks, or toggling masks/submasks on/off, both UI windows showed the expected results.

That could be because you are doing too much. There is only one particular sequence that seems to trigger the problem (tested on more than one computer)

Try this sequence exactly…

1. Take an image with no LAs…

   

2. Add a mask for anything except Control Point or Control Line. Here I use a Paintbrush…

   

   Note that there is nothing on the palette between the type of mask and the Exposure slider.

3. Now, add a sub-mask at the same level…

   

   Still nothing between the type of mask and the Exposure slider.

4. Now apply that sub-mask to the image once, using the Control Point tool…

   

   Note that there is still nothing between the type of mask and the Exposure slider.

5. But if I now deselect and reselect the Control Point sub-mask…

   

From now on, I can select and deselect any masks and things will behave normally.

It is only ever when adding the first Control Point or Control Line, after a first sub-mask that doesn’t make use of the Chroma/Luma or Diffusion sliders, that those sliders do not appear without a de/re/selection

After these sliders have appeared for the first time, everything appears to behave as expected.

Please follow these instructions, and only these instructions, precisely and let me know what you find.

---

MacBook Pro M4 and Mac Mini M2 running Sequoia using PL9.2.1 both give same results