I just transferred a file and its DOP, which lists several virtual copies, which have been renamed, to another computer (both Mac)
The result was that the new names were lost.
Can anyone else verify this as a problem before I report it please?
@Joanna ,
how did you transfer the files?
Where were the names lost, on the old or new Mac?
How did you check? In DPL on the new Mac? New DB or copy?
Over the network using Finder
I copied over the DOP file but, in opening it, PL on the target seemed to remove it.
ì looked at the filmstrip in PL. Didn’t touch the database on either machine.
Didn’t we have a similar issue a few years ago? I think I remember that there was a similar issue (with metadata?) that caused data to be lost.
If you disable automatic I/E of sidecars, do you still lose the files?
I came across something that stopped working, but had worked before: even though the .dop contained VCs, none were shown in the filmstrip.
Tested again…and found hat VCs and VC names transferred from DPL7 to DPL8 (write in 7, read in 8, all manually) … but sometimes didn’t. Testing a few times more, it worked every time. This could mean that a) DPL has issues or b) I wasn’t too concentrated, testing before midnight. I tend towards b) and recommend that you test again, being very careful about what you do.
Testing with yet another version of DPL, I found that it can indeed take more than one import before the correct VC names appear.
GRRRR
I don’t know how you did that all and I’m on Windows.
But I do know that the file browser of PL isn’t updated correctly many times.
Do you miss them in PL or in the file browser of the OS?
George
As @Joanna did, I checked file names in the film strip in photo library view of PhotoLab.
I can reproduce the issue and find that PhotoLab needs manual importing twice, before the names of the VCs are correct.
- The first manual import will show the VCs with the original file’s name
- The second manual import then sets VC names as they are in the sidecar
This is the test sequence, note that DPLs are set for manual import/export of DOPs
- create virtual copies in PhotoLab “A” for images that are in Folder “F”
- rename virtual copies by adding “_X” as a file name suffix
- export sidecars with menu command
- select a folder without images in DPL “A”
- look at folder “F” in DPL “B” → VCs are absent … which is to be expected
- import sidecars with menu command → VCs appear with original file’s names
- import sidecars with menu command → VCs get custom names
For those who want to check the DOPs with a text editor: Virtual copies aren’t numbered in the sidecar. DPL adds the numbers in the UI depending on modification date. Also, entries aren’t sorted by modification date.
But the files are on the other computer, aren’t they?
That means that the file transfer has been done successful but that PL doesn’t update the file browser. And that’s done when PL was running. On windows a F5 should be enough to force an update. However in PL that doesn’t work always. On Windows.
George
As far as I’ve tested, it does not matter whether DPL is running or not. I also tested with manual i/e of sidecars in order to control the transfer of sidecar content. I also tested on a single computer and copied “F” and checked with it. Again, this does not seem to matter.
I’ll check what DPL will do with default dop handling (automatic i/e)
Thanks @platypus. Indeed, re-importing the DOP does make the VC names appear correctly.
Weird 
Supplementary question. On macOS Sequoia, I can open DOP files created on my computer, with TextEdit, but not those created on another computer and copied.
Sequoia has tighter security than previous macOSs.
ctrl-click the sidecar and proceeding from there should teach macOS that it’s okay to open these files.
Unfortunately, no. I have no problems with DOP files generated on my computer, but only those copied from Helen’s.
Seems to be a Mac problem.
George
@platypus As we discovered some time ago.
While it is unlikely that Windows users will be looking at this topic, particularly since we cannot rename VCs in DxPL(Win), it appear that VCs are not marked in a DxPL(Win) DOP but they are stored in order, i.e. [M]aster, VC[1], VC[2] etc. regardless of any of the date fields.
@platypus Sorry I made this reply in the wrong topic initally, oops!
You came to your conclusion about Mac VC ordering in the DOP after you supplied me with some Mac DOPs which I put through a program I had developed and which was then modified in light of what we discovered.
One of the things added to the program was to sort the creation and modified date into order and from that you concluded that the modified date was what determined the VC ordering.
But I ran just the program against some of my own data and it gave this on my PC.
With PC DOPS my conclusion was, before the tests, and after the tests that on the PC VCs are ordered by their order in the DOP.
So this is the output from a run on my own data
==================================================================================
11/08/2024 - F:\___PureBasic\_Test Data\P1.RW2.dop
(20) FileName = P1.RW2.dop
(21) F_File$ = P1.RW2
(22) F_File$_1 = P1
(23) F_Ext_dop = dop
(24) F_Ext_RAW = RW2
(30) FileName = F:\___PureBasic\_Test Data\P1.RW2.dop
@ line 2 Date = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9252546Z",
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@ line 8 ---->Albums = "",
New DOP name = P1.RW2.dop
@ line 9 CreationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.8372833Z",
@ line 18 ModificationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9192566Z",
@ line 19 Name = "P1.RW2",
@ line 25 Rating = 0,
@ line 485 Uuid = "A9DFA289-6618-4769-A53F-DFB40B975156", <----
Album_count = 1 Uuid_count = 1
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@ line 489 ---->Albums = "",
New DOP name = P1.RW2.dop
@ line 490 CreationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.8702725Z",
@ line 499 ModificationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9202563Z",
@ line 500 Name = "P1.RW2",
@ line 506 Rating = 1,
@ line 971 Uuid = "8742539A-5D33-4148-9972-8125FDD19180", <----
Album_count = 2 Uuid_count = 2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@ line 975 ---->Albums = "",
New DOP name = P1.RW2.dop
@ line 976 CreationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.8982636Z",
@ line 985 ModificationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9202563Z",
@ line 986 Name = "P1.RW2",
@ line 992 Rating = 2,
@ line 1467 Uuid = "2178E299-E96A-4AE6-9D6E-67A50667ADAE", <----
Album_count = 3 Uuid_count = 3
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@ line 1471 ---->Albums = "",
New DOP name = P1.RW2.dop
@ line 1472 CreationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9002627Z",
@ line 1481 ModificationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9202563Z",
@ line 1482 Name = "P1.RW2",
@ line 1488 Rating = 3,
@ line 1955 Uuid = "610C8C0E-5F06-436B-969A-0B3C84D2DC4C", <----
Album_count = 4 Uuid_count = 4
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@ line 1959 ---->Albums = "",
New DOP name = P1.RW2.dop
@ line 1960 CreationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9032616Z",
@ line 1969 ModificationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9212558Z",
@ line 1970 Name = "P1.RW2",
@ line 1976 Rating = 4,
@ line 2441 Uuid = "0C0FB87E-2259-4E18-920E-1B32B5C61E81", <----
Album_count = 5 Uuid_count = 5
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@ line 2446 Uuid = "304710F6-293C-41A9-8330-11C21C0E6635", <----
Album_count = 5 Uuid_count = 6
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Uuid list:-
@ line 485 1 Uuid = "A9DFA289-6618-4769-A53F-DFB40B975156",
@ line 971 2 Uuid = "8742539A-5D33-4148-9972-8125FDD19180",
@ line 1467 3 Uuid = "2178E299-E96A-4AE6-9D6E-67A50667ADAE",
@ line 1955 4 Uuid = "610C8C0E-5F06-436B-969A-0B3C84D2DC4C",
@ line 2441 5 Uuid = "0C0FB87E-2259-4E18-920E-1B32B5C61E81",
Sorted Uuid list:-
@ line 2441 5 Uuid = "0C0FB87E-2259-4E18-920E-1B32B5C61E81",
@ line 1467 3 Uuid = "2178E299-E96A-4AE6-9D6E-67A50667ADAE",
@ line 1955 4 Uuid = "610C8C0E-5F06-436B-969A-0B3C84D2DC4C",
@ line 971 2 Uuid = "8742539A-5D33-4148-9972-8125FDD19180",
@ line 485 1 Uuid = "A9DFA289-6618-4769-A53F-DFB40B975156",
Creation Date list:-
@ line 9 1 CreationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.8372833Z",
@ line 490 2 CreationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.8702725Z",
@ line 976 3 CreationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.8982636Z",
@ line 1472 4 CreationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9002627Z",
@ line 1960 5 CreationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9032616Z",
Sorted Creation Date List:-
@ line 9 1 CreationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.8372833Z",
@ line 490 2 CreationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.8702725Z",
@ line 976 3 CreationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.8982636Z",
@ line 1472 4 CreationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9002627Z",
@ line 1960 5 CreationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9032616Z",
Modification Date list:-
@ line 18 1 ModificationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9192566Z",
@ line 499 2 ModificationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9202563Z",
@ line 985 3 ModificationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9202563Z",
@ line 1481 4 ModificationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9202563Z",
@ line 1969 5 ModificationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9212558Z",
Sorted Modification Date List:-
@ line 18 1 ModificationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9192566Z",
@ line 1481 4 ModificationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9202563Z",
@ line 985 3 ModificationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9202563Z",
@ line 499 2 ModificationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9202563Z",
@ line 1969 5 ModificationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9212558Z",
==================================================================================
The sorted ‘CreationDate’ list exactly follows my premise about PC DOP VCs
Sorted Creation Date List:-
@ line 9 1 CreationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.8372833Z",
@ line 490 2 CreationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.8702725Z",
@ line 976 3 CreationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.8982636Z",
@ line 1472 4 CreationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9002627Z",
@ line 1960 5 CreationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9032616Z",
but the sorted ‘ModificationDate’ list shows
Sorted Modification Date List:-
@ line 18 1 ModificationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9192566Z",
@ line 1481 4 ModificationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9202563Z",
@ line 985 3 ModificationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9202563Z",
@ line 499 2 ModificationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9202563Z",
@ line 1969 5 ModificationDate = "2024-08-11T13:05:48.9212558Z",
which seems to indicate the ‘CreationDate’ is the correct ordering, certainly in the case of the PC DOP, where, in this case, 1 identifies the [M]aster and 2, 3, 4 and 5 identify the VCs [1], [2], [3] and [4] respectively.
PS:-
Plus I assigned ‘Rating’ values to help resolve any ordering issues when I analysed the output from the analyser program.
@BHAYT Whatever it might be on your (Windows) computer, that is what I start from:
And this is the .dop file I get:
N_20240616__C4A0149.cr3.dop (70.9 KB)
Check out VC numbers and Ratings in the dop…
Or look at the screen captures, watching for line numbers and search terms:
However I create those VCs, be it in rapid succession or slowly. mixed with rating, the sequence in the dop file is fairly random or follows whatever logic there might be.
@platypus Firstly I put the DOP through my program, having downloaded it, and got the following, the VC headings are now automatically inserted in-line with expectations on the PC.
The formatting differences between the Mac and PC DOPs plays havoc with the presentation and I need to remove leading spaces and need to check if that is having an impact on sorting.
Updated to remove some of the debugging code
==================================================================================
01/05/2025 - E:\_DownLoads\N_20240616__C4A0149.cr3.dop
@ line 1 Sidecar = {
@ line 2 Date = "2025-04-30T23:11:13.9070000Z",
@ line 2 Date = "2025-04-30T23:11:13.9070000Z",
@ line 3 Software = "DxO PhotoLab 8.5.1.44",
@ line 3 Software = "DxO PhotoLab 8.5.1.44",
@ line 4 Source = {
@ line 5 CafID = "C99407b",
@ line 6 Items = {
@ line 7 {
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------[Master]
@ line 8 ---->Albums = "",
@ line 9 CreationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:48.0520000Z",
@ line 16 ModificationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:55.2320000Z",
@ line 17 Name = "N_20240616__C4A0149.cr3",
@ line 19 OutputItems = {
@ line 22 Rating = 1,
@ line 65 ColorLookupPath = "",
@ line 443 Overrides = {
@ line 445 Version = "19.5",
@ line 449 Uuid = "3DEC0F40-3E45-4835-AD60-206954E7C444", <----
Album_count = 1 Uuid_count = 1
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------VC[1]
@ line 452 ---->Albums = "",
@ line 453 CreationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:49.6540000Z",
@ line 460 ModificationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:57.0770000Z",
@ line 461 Name = "N_20240616__C4A0149.cr3",
@ line 463 OutputItems = {
@ line 466 Rating = 2,
@ line 509 ColorLookupPath = "",
@ line 887 Overrides = {
@ line 889 Version = "19.5",
@ line 893 Uuid = "45F25593-E68D-4B74-A0FC-69FB1B63D6E6", <----
Album_count = 2 Uuid_count = 2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------VC[2]
@ line 896 ---->Albums = "",
@ line 897 CreationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:50.7190000Z",
@ line 904 ModificationDate = "2025-04-30T23:11:01.6820000Z",
@ line 905 Name = "N_20240616__C4A0149.cr3",
@ line 907 OutputItems = {
@ line 910 Rating = 4,
@ line 953 ColorLookupPath = "",
@ line 1331 Overrides = {
@ line 1333 Version = "19.5",
@ line 1337 Uuid = "609282A4-A287-40DE-A032-730A08208A38", <----
Album_count = 3 Uuid_count = 3
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------VC[3]
@ line 1340 ---->Albums = "",
@ line 1341 CreationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:51.6650000Z",
@ line 1348 ModificationDate = "2025-04-30T23:11:04.3520000Z",
@ line 1349 Name = "N_20240616__C4A0149.cr3",
@ line 1351 OutputItems = {
@ line 1354 Rating = 5,
@ line 1397 ColorLookupPath = "",
@ line 1775 Overrides = {
@ line 1777 Version = "19.5",
@ line 1781 Uuid = "EBA6EA2C-1478-423D-922E-C1F1940868DC", <----
Album_count = 4 Uuid_count = 4
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------VC[4]
@ line 1784 ---->Albums = "",
@ line 1785 CreationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:50.1940000Z",
@ line 1792 ModificationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:59.3720000Z",
@ line 1793 Name = "N_20240616__C4A0149.cr3",
@ line 1795 OutputItems = {
@ line 1798 Rating = 3,
@ line 1841 ColorLookupPath = "",
@ line 2219 Overrides = {
@ line 2221 Version = "19.5",
@ line 2225 Uuid = "D9FCFA2C-F757-49C4-B912-F4F8E4C38B74", <----
Album_count = 5 Uuid_count = 5
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------VC[5]
@ line 2228 ---->Albums = "",
@ line 2229 CreationDate = "2025-04-05T20:53:17.0520000Z",
@ line 2236 ModificationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:39.7660000Z",
@ line 2237 Name = "N_20240616__C4A0149.cr3",
@ line 2239 OutputItems = {
@ line 2241 CreationDate = "2025-04-18T08:55:46.4610000Z",
@ line 2242 ModificationDate = "2025-04-18T08:55:46.4610000Z",
@ line 2246 Uuid = "26A8A3CF-44E7-4E8B-8D7E-B2C7C0A116C5",
@ line 2250 Rating = 0,
@ line 2293 ColorLookupPath = "",
@ line 2671 Overrides = {
@ line 2673 Version = "19.5",
@ line 2677 Uuid = "16624020-27CA-4609-97A5-9213F821DEDF", <----
Album_count = 6 Uuid_count = 6
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@ line 2680 Uuid = "75CB1441-4AB7-441F-83B1-ED49CE800FE3", <----
Album_count = 6 Uuid_count = 7
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@ line 2682 Version = "19.0",
Uuid list:-
@ line 449 1 Uuid = "3DEC0F40-3E45-4835-AD60-206954E7C444",
@ line 893 2 Uuid = "45F25593-E68D-4B74-A0FC-69FB1B63D6E6",
@ line 1337 3 Uuid = "609282A4-A287-40DE-A032-730A08208A38",
@ line 1781 4 Uuid = "EBA6EA2C-1478-423D-922E-C1F1940868DC",
@ line 2225 5 Uuid = "D9FCFA2C-F757-49C4-B912-F4F8E4C38B74",
@ line 2677 6 Uuid = "16624020-27CA-4609-97A5-9213F821DEDF",
Sorted Uuid list:-
@ line 2677 6 Uuid = "16624020-27CA-4609-97A5-9213F821DEDF",
@ line 449 1 Uuid = "3DEC0F40-3E45-4835-AD60-206954E7C444",
@ line 893 2 Uuid = "45F25593-E68D-4B74-A0FC-69FB1B63D6E6",
@ line 1337 3 Uuid = "609282A4-A287-40DE-A032-730A08208A38",
@ line 2225 5 Uuid = "D9FCFA2C-F757-49C4-B912-F4F8E4C38B74",
@ line 1781 4 Uuid = "EBA6EA2C-1478-423D-922E-C1F1940868DC",
Creation Date list:-
@ line 9 1 CreationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:48.0520000Z",
@ line 453 2 CreationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:49.6540000Z",
@ line 897 3 CreationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:50.7190000Z",
@ line 1341 4 CreationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:51.6650000Z",
@ line 1785 5 CreationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:50.1940000Z",
@ line 2241 6 CreationDate = "2025-04-18T08:55:46.4610000Z",
Sorted Creation Date List:-
@ line 2241 6 CreationDate = "2025-04-18T08:55:46.4610000Z",
@ line 9 1 CreationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:48.0520000Z",
@ line 453 2 CreationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:49.6540000Z",
@ line 1785 5 CreationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:50.1940000Z",
@ line 897 3 CreationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:50.7190000Z",
@ line 1341 4 CreationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:51.6650000Z",
Modification Date list:-
@ line 16 1 ModificationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:55.2320000Z",
@ line 460 2 ModificationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:57.0770000Z",
@ line 904 3 ModificationDate = "2025-04-30T23:11:01.6820000Z",
@ line 1348 4 ModificationDate = "2025-04-30T23:11:04.3520000Z",
@ line 1792 5 ModificationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:59.3720000Z",
@ line 2242 6 ModificationDate = "2025-04-18T08:55:46.4610000Z",
Sorted Modification Date List:-
@ line 2242 6 ModificationDate = "2025-04-18T08:55:46.4610000Z",
@ line 16 1 ModificationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:55.2320000Z",
@ line 460 2 ModificationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:57.0770000Z",
@ line 1792 5 ModificationDate = "2025-04-30T23:10:59.3720000Z",
@ line 904 3 ModificationDate = "2025-04-30T23:11:01.6820000Z",
@ line 1348 4 ModificationDate = "2025-04-30T23:11:04.3520000Z",
==================================================================================
I can see no rationale to the order within the DOP which makes no sense!
The first entry in the DOP has a ‘Rating’ of 1 which is for VC[1] and the [M]aster is actually the last entry in the DOP!?
There must be a method of determining which is which otherwise it simply makes no sense!
Imagine images being handled by separate threads that are queued depending on creation, which can also depend on dispatching these and other threads. Some might have to wait for resources, others might pass quickly. A determined sequence would only be possible with a single queue, which would waste a lot of time in a system that can handle threads concurrently. Not being strict about “proper” handling can speed things up for some and cause delays for others.
Beats me, but that’s what I can think of.
@platypus A plausible reason for why the ordering is what it is but there must be something in the DOP to indicate what’s what otherwise it would not be able to re-establish the correct order when that DOP is loaded into a new database!?
So there has to be something in there somewhere?
Every indent level is in alphabetical order by the way!?
yes, that’s my editor… so I checked again. Looking at the file
with a hex editor shows an odd order still
.
Look at the list of hits for “Rating” (3 → 5 → 4 → 0 → 2 → 1)
And that’s in the UI:
All things considered and based on this and previous research and posts, DPL (Mac) seems to set VC numbers according to ModificationDate. If I remove the oldest entry, which is the master, VC #1 will be the new master and everything else will be renumbered - we’ve tested that already.
Anyways, the current workaround for the issue discovered by @Joanna is to manually re-import sidecars. And again, we’re talking about DPL on macOS.