Good to know, thank you. I’m a Sony man and I was not aware of this. Learning never finishes. 
At least it stops the brain from fossilising 
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Too late for me.
Mark
Gosh, you’re confusing me with all these facts! But thank you for doing so.
I don’t enjoy it when I visit the hospital I volunteer at in India, and an overwhelming majority of the people I meet or work with are using Windows, and I struggle to understand yet one more thing that used to feel obvious to me. At least I remember my password.
Absolutely. Agreed!!
In 2009, I made a few trips to Kannayakumari, India - it’s as far South as you can go - any further (boat required) and you would be in Sri Lanka. My camera was an ancient Canon Pro1 according to the EXIF data - it’s so long ago, that I forgot.
I found one of the images I liked the most (it took two trips to capture it, one to figure things out, and the next day to go to the best place I could find. Mark, regarding your thought on my old Lightroom exports, they were not as good as what I can do now in PhotoLab. I’m sure @Joanna will find ways to do even better, but here’s the end result. I still need to find the original image straight from the camera. According to the EXIF information, the one that I found was probably edited in Lightroom several years ago.
I needed to get there an hour before Sunrise, walking from my hotel, and I found the one spot I preferred to shoot from. The camera was ahead of its time, and I still own it (but had to buy a new battery as the only one died long ago).
While standing there, I couldn’t even see the people. In Kannayakumari, many of the locals and many of the tourists go to this one spot to see the sun rise, and later on the day, they see that while facing the opposite direction.
I’m tempted to bring out more of the detail, but when I took the photo, I could’t even see the detail. I may have more photos, similar to this one, but for better or worse, this meant a lot to me back then.
Who knows, on my next visit, maybe I can do better.
Back in 2008, while my new camera was huge and heavy, I was using a Nikon D2x much of the time. While going back through my old images, I found an un-edited image of Laskshmi, a temple elephant. Back then, with Lightroom, I felt limited in what I was able to do. Nowadays, other than when @Joanna points out things I should have done better, PhotoLab allows me to create something I am very happy with. Anyway, the story…
On a trip to Pondicherry, India, in 2008 I visited a famous Hindu temple. I wasn’t allowed inside (I’m not Hindu), but I enjoyed taking photos of the temple elephant. I have great shots of her posing for me, trunk up in the air, but my favorites are the natural images of the crowd bringing her food, and Rupees, with Lakshmi usually tapping them on the head with her trunk in appreciation. Her handlers tolerated me, until I started bringing them photos of Lakshmi and them, which they loved! Sadly, Lakshmi died a few years ago, and as of last year, they hadn’t yet gotten a new elephant.
Having fun with PhotoLab, this was my final edit of this image. I’ll post the original, and the .dop file below, if anyone wishes to do better. With PhotoLab I was able to make the vertical lines look more vertical, and to bring out detail that didn’t show up in the original. Lots of little stuff.
Twenty years ago, the D2x was a very expensive camera, around $5,000 or so. I bought a D2h, (sports version) which died the first time I used it. Nikon replaced it three times, and each one died. The last time I sent it back, Michael Ansett, the head of Nikon Service back then, asked how he could make things right. I asked him to send me a Nikon D2x (not h) that was in use at Nikon USA, meaning it would likely work for me. It still had a bug, but that didn’t prevent it from doing what I wanted. It still works today. Software is up to date, and considering the 12.4 meg sensor, it’s still useable. The things I dislike now, are the crop sensor, and the tiny display screen on the back making the menus more difficult than newer Nikons. But all that is from today - back in 2008 I loved it!
One of my favorite photos from back then, which I just finished editing:
The .dop file:
puducherry2008_264.JPG.dop (15.1 KB)
…and the original image:
Sadly, @Joanna has convinced me that using my old cameras is a waste of time. New hardware and new software, and improvements overall make me feel like my old stuff is obsolete. They’re still loaded with sentimental value though. Grudgingly, I agree with her. Grrrr… But I know she is right.
Anyway, if anyone wants to try to improve on my edit, feel free to do so.
One last photo, after which I’ll close my windows into my past. Once again, from my ancient Canon Pro1 camera - still have it. This photo is from 2005, almost a decade ago. I was (and still am) fascinated by the wild monkeys that can be found all over India, and how they seemed to show off their personalities just like people. They’re used to being around people, and weren’t bothered by my taking photos of them. If I waited long enough, they ignored me, giving me opportunities to capture photos I enjoyed.
However I processed them way back then (mostly Lightroom), due to my inexperience, and never understanding how to get the most out of the images, the quality of the finished images had much more to do with my capturing the image, than any of my processing. I may not (or ever) be an “expert” at PhotoLab, but it gives me all the tools to take what I see/saw in my mind, and make a photograph from it.
Anyway, here is a monkey photo I enjoy:
If anyone is interested, I can post the original image, and the .dop file.
I’m looking forward to returning to India later this year, and maybe I’ll get to take some more monkey photos.
In the meantime, I think I’ll close my paths back into my past, and return to the second half of 2024. It’s probably my fault, not my gear or anything else, but I used to find it easier to capture images I felt really good about when I traveled. If it wasn’t so hot, I’d be going back to Wakodahatchee Wetlands, looking for photogenic birds.
Back to 2024, and my D780.
I went walking around a few weeks ago with my ultra-wide-angle Nikon Fisheye lens, and while I thought the results were interesting, Joanna used some computer trickery to remove the “fisheye effect”. Yesterday I went back to the same spot with my 14mm Sigma, a normal lens, not fisheye. I tried taking the photo from the same spot, but it didn’t look as appealing as what I had in my mind. I started to walk to my right, and found what I thought was a perfect spot, but for overhead wires. The only way to correct that was to walk to the middle of the street.
The Nikon came up with an “FEE” error - turns out the aperture ring on the lens got bumped, and wasn’t set for f/22. Easy fix. Been a long time since I needed to worry about that, as modern-day lenses often don’t have an aperture ring.
Anyway, here’s the end result, after doing, and re-doing, and re-re-doing the editing. PhotoLab is wonderful, but I over-did some of the adjustments. Backing off on them made the image a little more “natural”, but the photo is anything but natural.
Other than Miami being way too hot, the day went great. An hour later, and the sun would have been behind the buildings. Just for the heck of it, I did try to straighten the vertical lines, so they were vertical again, but the “corrected” image looked boring…
780_5790 | 2024-06-28.nef (31.0 MB)
780_5790 | 2024-06-28.nef.dop (16.4 KB)
Interesting changes, can you say in words what you did, and why? Just curious. It’s always interesting to see my pictures again through other people’s eyes.
I thought that maybe I was the only person in this forum to have fond memories of “what was”, compared to all the “latest and greatest”.
I just read this fascinating (to me) article on older vs. newer cameras:
For a while now, every time I want to dig out one of my older cameras and enjoy using it again, reasons are posted for why that is a silly thing to do. I usually (grudgingly) go along, and put the old camera back in its grav… er, home.
Large format film is very expensive.
Film itself feels “expensive”.
And there are all the reasons why digital is now where it’s at.
- I know I’m just now getting to feel fully at home with my Nikon D780.
- Then I find some of my older photos, 1980’s and 1990’s, and think "so, what was wrong with this?
I don’t expect anyone to agree with me, but the article I just linked to summarizes things very well:
"In the end, it might well be true that the best camera really is the one you have on you, but for some the best camera is the one that bridges the gulf between personal feeling and external expression. "
My guess is more than 75%. The reason for that is that I guess for most people the Color Wheel is the most obvious tool to use for color grading and adjustment of saturation.
As an artist, I can appreciate everything you wrote, and why. I guess most people in this forum want to CREATE beautiful images.
My point of view, is that I want to CAPTURE what I SEE, and share it with others. Most of the time, if I SAW it, I want to have it IN my photo.
[quote]
The problem with that stance is that an optical viewfinder in some light conditions is unable to show what the sensor will be able to capture and as Mark says there are problems with some lenses that really will distort your images if handled unskillful. In cases like those many photographs will use the key stoning tools that are soooo good in Photolab to correct problems like that. I darkness you don’t see a shit in an OVF but an EVF can help a lot because unlike an OVF the EVF always give you a preview of how your image will look even before you have taken it with the setting you happen to have done on your camera. In worst case an OVF is just completely dark - that´s really all there is to see in that but you have said no to mirrorless and that is your choice. [/quote]
Mark also lifted the possibility in Photolab to lift the shadows for example. Personally, I almost always lower the high lights too in order (if possible) to increase detail in those parts of the pictures. Nowadays lenses are far more contrasty than before - especially zoom-lenses. Using Fine Contrast really can make wonders and I know even Joanna is a big fan of Fine Contrast and of using film emulations in order to get a nice fine grain in B&W-images and many photographers love to convert their images to B&W and that is really far from what we see. [/quote]
I’m a lousy example of what PhotoLab should do. I mostly just do NOT want it to mess up my photographs, and I realize that by the time I get done editing, much of the time, I shouldn’t even call them photographs. Nowadays I look at images, and make them look “better” (big mistake, not to do so any more!!!), and export them. I would be happiest if what I saw on my screen matched what I thought I saw on my camera viewfinder.
[quote]
As I said earlier - it will be just a wet dream of yours to be able to catch what you see in your OVF of your DSLR, because if you screwed up your camera will record something very diffrent from what you saw. That privilege is only possible to get if you use an EVF.
Why is messing up the pictures your only alternative Mike? If you are not satisfied with your postprosessing skills just make a virtual copy and go ahead. Not satisfied with your job just reset it and try again.[/quote]
My guess is more than 75%. The reason for that is that I guess for most people the Color Wheel is the most obvious tool to use for color grading and adjustment of saturation.
As an artist, I can appreciate everything you wrote, and why. I guess most people in this forum want to CREATE beautiful images.
My point of view, is that I want to CAPTURE what I SEE, and share it with others. Most of the time, if I SAW it, I want to have it IN my photo.
[quote]
The problem with that stance is that an optical viewfinder in some light conditions is unable to show what the sensor will be able to capture and as Mark says there are problems with some lenses that really will distort your images if handled unskillful. In cases like those many photographs will use the key stoning tools that are soooo good in Photolab to correct problems like that. I darkness you don’t see a shit in an OVF but an EVF can help a lot because unlike an OVF the EVF always give you a preview of how your image will look even before you have taken it with the setting you happen to have done on your camera. In worst case an OVF is just completely dark - that´s really all there is to see in that but you have said no to mirrorless and that is your choice. [/quote]
Mark also lifted the possibility in Photolab to lift the shadows for example. Personally, I almost always lower the high lights too in order (if possible) to increase detail in those parts of the pictures. Nowadays lenses are far more contrasty than before - especially zoom-lenses. Using Fine Contrast really can make wonders and I know even Joanna is a big fan of Fine Contrast and of using film emulations in order to get a nice fine grain in B&W-images and many photographers love to convert their images to B&W and that is really far from what we see. [/quote]
I’m a lousy example of what PhotoLab should do. I mostly just do NOT want it to mess up my photographs, and I realize that by the time I get done editing, much of the time, I shouldn’t even call them photographs. Nowadays I look at images, and make them look “better” (big mistake, not to do so any more!!!), and export them. I would be happiest if what I saw on my screen matched what I thought I saw on my camera viewfinder.
[quote]
As I said earlier - it will be just a wet dream of yours to be able to catch what you see in your OVF of your DSLR, because if you screwed up your camera will record something very diffrent from what you saw. That privilege is only possible to get if you use an EVF.
Why is messing up the pictures your only alternative Mike? If you are not satisfied with your postprosessing skills just make a virtual copy and go ahead. Not satisfied with your job just reset it and try again.[/quote]
Sorry Mike for this confusion because this post was written moths ago and was stopped for control of DXO - it happens me from time to time. I tried to delete them but could not of some reason and finally DXO decided to release them and the they ended up at the end of the flow instead on the place they ought to have been placed in.
If DXO decides to halt a post I think they have to be far more responsive than they often are. These delays just cause confusion.
I too have a post here “waiting approval”. Maybe this year. It’s a “nothing” post.
Last thought - I don’t consider my photos from the 1950’s through today junk becauseI didn’t use (have) an EVF, and just used the old fashioned ways.
For me, what I might gain from being able to see the final image in my viewfinder is outweighed by seeing the scene with my own eyes.
My post that is waiting for approval here? I’m tempted to delete it, and re-post it. There is noting even slightly controversial in it. Maybe we all get posts “awaiting approval” at random, and it was just my turn.
I totally agree - my post waiting for approval is a “nothing post”. I should just mail it to you, and then delete it.
Should we have an open discussion thread here in the ‘chat’ section about the benefits and deficiencies, of different format cameras? Everything we posted up above will gradually vanish in this thread, almost 2,000 responses. Maybe I never should have fed it, and just let it go alway on its own. …which means I should stop posting anything more, in this thread. I wish I had the power to “close” it.
I don’t think that is a good idea. If you want to start a discussion about that I think it is by far better to create a new tread.
I have seen several iterations of treads like that through the years so I’m not at all that interested to participate really. I don’t think very much new will come out of that.