My longest lens is a Canon EF-S 55-250. Itâs little more than a âkitâ lens but Iâm happy with what I can do with it. For example, this shot of a pair of Red Kites:
It suffers from all the faults that @Joanna has pointed out in @mikemyers bird photos but I donât care. I like it 
My current opinion - it all depends. For me, @Joanna pointing out all the issues is something I wish I had realized on my own, and in no way does it take the joy out of my photography experience. It does the opposite - since I now think I know how to capture highly detailed bird photos - now it boils down to âdo I want to go through the experience and cost of doing soâ? Apparently not, at least for now. Just capturing the images is the most difficult thing, which I can learn with my current lenses.
You, and I, will get more useful feedback from:
www.bcgforums.com.
They will understand we are beginners, and donât yet have all the gear.
Oh yeah, when @Joanna tells me not to take photos because of my limited gear, my translation is currently to go ahead and take them anyway, but to NOT post them here in this forum, until I can take them properly.
âŠand Iâve also got to decide how much $$$$ it is worth to me to purchase a very long focal length lens, of adequate quality, and how often might help me.
This is a test, to verify this image is satisfactory for this forum.
It was taken on my visit to Wakodahatchee Wetlands a month or so ago.
It was barely cropped.
Everything was edited the way I normally do, one control point to lighten the eye.
Very simple editing.
So, does this pass my â@Joanna Testâ for appropriate non-pixelization?
780_3795 | 2024-04-04.nef (29.6 MB)
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The Z8 or Z9 would have done a better job, as it is smart enough to focus on a birdâs eye.
I donât think my D780, even with Z6 settings, is smart enough for this.
On my next visit to Wakodahatchee Wetlands, I guess Iâll bring my tripod or monopod and try to focus on the eye.
Similar scene and technique, different bird:
780_4016 | 2024-04-04.nef (29.6 MB)
780_4016 | 2024-04-04.nef.dop (13.4 KB)
One last photo to post, of a red headed duck.
This duck must be aware of my concerns with @Joannaâs duck with the dark head. My duck refuses to let me do what I intended, as the head is dark, and the eye is dark, and I donât know enough PhotoLab âtricksâ to bring out the eye. I wasnât going to post this until tomorrow, by which time I might have figured out how to do it. I expect Joanna to just say âwell, itâs dark, what of it???â
780_4100 | 2024-04-04.nef (27.7 MB)
780_4100 | 2024-04-04.nef.dop (13.4 KB)
I will try for different lighting next time.
Again, I love the ripples.
Since it fills most of the height of the frame, the only thing you could have done to improve the resolution would have been to have taken it in portrait mode. As it is, you have a 12Mpx image instead of the maximum 24Mpx that your camera is capable of.
Here is my attempt, without lightening the eye, because it simply isnât necessary and cropped to 5x4 proportionsâŠ
780_3795 | 2024-04-04.nef.dop (27,5 Ko)
The focus is fine on the eye with the gear you have used, but⊠by using f/5.6, you ended up with the back half of the bird out of focus. Something like f/8 would have been betterâŠ
By the way itâs an African Swamphen
Once again, wasted pixels by not taking it in portrait orientation.
Then I also used fine contrast on the highlights and a slightly modified Tone Curve to bring out the feathers.
780_4016 | 2024-04-04.nef.dop (27,0 Ko)
This is definitely not a duck. It is a Moorhen.
Now, where do I start?
Apart from all that in PL, you also need to check your focus as the birdâs chest is sharper than anything else, including the face. Once again due to too narrow a depth of field. Would have been better at f/10.
Birds like this have dark eyes and surrounding plumage, because they nest in reeds next to water, where brighter coloration would attract predators to their presence.
780_4100 | 2024-04-04.nef.dop (26,3 Ko)
Gack!!!
Well, I obviously ainât no birder!!!
I remember thinking about the aperture, but in the future f/8 will obviously work better for me for photos like this.
I need to do a lot of thinking about what you wrote, but I have one quick question - once the lens is zoomed as far as it goes, 300mm, what is the benefit in shooting âverticalâ rather than âhorizontalâ? The size of the âduckâ in pixels will be the same in the end result, due to my croppingâŠ
The floating leaf gave me a good excuse to not zoom in any more, along with the ripples - but I wasnât aware of this when I took the photo. In my mind, I just âsaw a duckâ, which I now know to be an âAfrican Swamphenâ thanks to you. To be honest, I just saw âa bird with a red headâ.
I donât enjoy shooting my cameras in a vertical orientation, rather than horizontal, other than for my retired D3 with the two shutter release buttons. And no, I donât want to buy a âgripâ, nor do I want to buy a D6,
More questions later, although Iâm tempted to not bother to ask, and just follow your advice.
I did a lot more searching about the âLive Viewâ on the D780. It is identical in all practical ways to the view from a Nikon Z6, other than only being viewable on the rear screen. All the auto-focus tricks for the Z6 work on the D780 - there is a YouTube video showing this. Iâll post a link, once I do a lot more reading. I read Ken Rockwellâs review on the Nikon Z8, and I can see good reasons for, and against, changing to ML. Right now, in my mind, itâs a tie.
Just one quick question - how in the world did you recognize the correct name of this bird? Did you look it up???
Or, depending on the subject, down to f/10, which is the smallest aperture without incurring diffraction.
If you canât zoom any further with your feet, then there is still the advantage that it places the entire subject more centrally in the frame, thus helping avoid edge softness.
If youâre not prepared to buy a grip, youâre going to have to get used to it. Just make sure the shutter release is at the âtopâ, which will give you more stability.
All âLive Viewsâ use only the rear screen, so no difference at all between the D780 and the Z6.
But, if you are going to use the Live View, there is no reason to change. The only possible justification is to be able to use the EVF. That is the only difference between a DSLR and a mirrorless.
I have known this bird all my life. Otherwise, just drag a JPEG copy of the image onto Google Lens.
My preference is to use the viewfinder, up on top, rather than stare at a screen.
ML cameras let me do this, and watch a televised version of what is going on.
The technology being used INSIDE the camera is totally different, both the focusing, and the viewing - but I assume you already know all this.
I donât enjoy what to me is like watching a televisionâs digital view, rather than seeing it live via the mirror, through my lens.
While the Z6 and D780 provide nearly identical information, itâs how I view things that is different.
A better comparison can be found HERE:
Nikon D780 vs Nikon Z6: Which One Should You Get?
âŠIâd prefer to have the technology of the Z6, but I also prefer to have the same kind of viewfinder Iâve spent most of my life using. I would never replace my D780 with any of the Z cameras, but I am aware of the âadvantagesâ.
As to what you wrote, âLive Viewâ may look the same to you today, compared to older cameras, but thereâs a lot more going on behind the scenes, such as focusing. Iâm aware of the Z6 ability to follow a personâs eye, but the Z8 can do this with an animalâs eye.
I read this in an interview with a Nikon representative regarding AF adjustments. What those use cases could be? Maybe some scientific applications, where you intentionally bias the focus to be ahead or behind, because you are not capable to achieve focus in the correct plane? They are also cooperating with NASA I believe. I guess it does not harm to have that option.
Why does AF micro adjustment option still exist in Nikonâs mirrorless cameras?
Nikon: With mirrorless cameras, basically there is no need to use the AF micro adjustment function, since AF happens on the sensor side. However, some customers have a need to make fine adjustments according to their tastes, and the Z series is equipped with this function to meet this need, as we always want to integrate customer feedback and maximize customization.
The Z6II is already 3.5 years on the market.
George
About the same for the D780:
" The Nikon D780 is a full-frame DSLR camera announced by Nikon on January 6, 2020. It was released for purchase on January 23, 2020. It is the successor to the Nikon D750 and has incorporated a lot of technologies from mirrorless Z6 camera."
Back then, the comparison was valid. For me, buying a Z9, or Z8, or D6, was not an option. My own choice came down to D850 or D780.
Long after, I read Ken Rockwellâs review of the Z9/Z8 system, and I remember thinking that maybe when the Z10 comes out I might reconsider, but then I got a chance to use my friendâs Z8 for a while. Not for me.
I gave up two D750âs, for one âlike newâ D780, and most likely the D850 would have been my best choice. Too late now.
(I quickly tried a Z6 in the past, and it felt to me like a toy.)
(Seeing the real image, live, maybe through a mirror, and then a viewfinder, is what my brain expects. Seeing what âfeelsâ to me like a television digital image breaks any connection I might have had.)
Despite everything, if I was forced to use a ML camera for a while, it would likely be a Z9. But I might say the heck with everything, and simply go back to my Leica M10. âŠand I should add, using my old D3 was a pleasure, but the technology is too old/limited. âŠoh, and finally, I am used to charging a (single) battery the night before, and having it last all day, and still having a lot of battery left over. ML cameras need to find a fix for that. My suggestionâŠ
But all of this is mostly irrelevant. A camera is a box that captures images. The camera does not make better images, thatâs for the photographer to do, regardless of the camera.
(Just as important today as the day it was written:)
https://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/notcamera.htm
Thank you for this quote. I sincerely believe, it is an explanation for something they âforgotâ to clean out of the firmware. The menu item was existing when I bought the Z 7 in September 2018 and the next bs âwant to integrate customer feedbackâ is just a post-release reason. âmaximize customisationâ means get worse AF results at will. What does this have to do with âcustomizationâ?
It could be, though, that Nikon was well aware about the eye cosec not working properly. A couple of reviewers stated that the eyelashes were in focus instead of the iris.
Anyway, yesterday I was a bit surprised: I was searching some settings in the (also rather complicated) menu of the S Lumix S5 II. The S1R and the S5 donât have that item, but in S5II thereâs a new possibility for AF-microadjustments 
The manual says ânot needed normally, butâŠâ and doesnât give the slightest hint about what can cause the need to use this.
I really would like to see some sample images before and after for one single case of constant improvement due to this.
I think THAT is a very odd reason to implement âmicro adjustmentâ in a mirrorless but in fact I have seen two examples of lenses that didnÂŽt focus properly on a couple of my mirrorless - but that reflects abnormalities.
I had a 50mm/1,8 that never was reliable on my NEX 7 and my first Sony G 24-105mm/4 was a total disaster but that lens was one of many in a whole series of that type that was flagged as faulty on Sonys site in Japan. I got a new one without any other cost than losing some time. Normally there is no need at all with micro adjustment in mirrorless camera houses.
About Nikon: I could imagine some of the adapted F-mount G lenses, with their ring motors, could stop driving the focus-unit of the lens too early or too late. They are fast, but I assume less precise than stepping motors or linear-motors. Also, the possibility to override AF manually at any time needs a clutch element between motor and focus-ring, whereas the focus-by-wire of all mirrorless will never affect the focus unit directly.
I had one Sigma lens for F-mount changed to L-mount (mount exchange service by Sigma). The 135/1.8 is one of the âmechanical clutchâ versions and in the beginning my impression was âhmmm, why does it appear less sharp than the DG DN versions? It was better on the D850.â Maybe I need to investigate a bit more, but that lens is huge and heavy and unsurprisingly not often in my bag.
There were a few lenses for L-mount which were just quick conversions from old DSLR designs, therefore also with their mechanical clutches. But Sigma, as source of this possible need for AF adjustments, doesnât have a menu item for focus adjustment. The new Leica SL3, as far as I could see in the manual, also lacks the possibility to adjust certain lensesâ AF.
@Joanna, is this what these guys are talking about???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjOL3z_QqdI
Do those of us using DSLR cameras need to be concerned with this?
@Joanna
As you are stickler for detailsâŠ
Since Mike photographed these birds in/near Florida they are likely the new world species of similar birds found in Eurasia and Africa
Common Gallinule (Gallinula galeata), not Eurasian Moorhen (Gallinula chlorapus). The Common Moorhen species was split in 2011.
Western Swamphen (Porphyrio Porphyrio), not African Swamphen (Porphyrio madagascariensis). There is a known area in Florida where the Western Swamphen lives although the species is considered Eurasian. Both splits from the Purple Swamphen. Yea, the ornithologists are sticklers for details too.
The white bird is a Great Egret in breeding (green lores).
Steve Perry is one of many youtubers that profess to have the secret key to photography success.
I prefer the works of real photographers such as Michael Forsberg, Melissa Groo, Thomas Mangelson, Joel Sartore and others. Of course, I canât play the guitar as well as Eric Clapton either!
I think you should name Mikeâs beloved Ren Kockwell before you name Perry. And these kind of guys were around long before YT, so they just changed their business model, collected subscribers, imply âmillions of viewersâ canât lie!!!" and (at best) enjoyed their work with video cameras. They simply multiplied their audience which before was evening classes at adult education centre. The good ones donât claim to possess the only truth. And are entertaining which is not the worst thing to say about a YT show. Or do you take Jared Polinâs sniff test seriously?
Thank you for your insights. I am not a âbirderâ and took my info from Google image search, which just led me to the more general case.
I thought that might have been the case with all the trailing but useless looking extra feathers. Or am I totally wrong (again)? 
Living on the coast, with plenty of cattle farming, we have lots of Egrets, both Cattle and âordinaryâ, or at least, that is what I am led to believe.
My primary input for Mike tends to be a lot more photography based, not ornithological 
Who? Why? 2 sec of a video was too much for me!
