Part 2 - Off-Topic - advice, experiences, and examples for images being processed in DxO Photolab

[mikemyers]

The following are two YouTube videos by Ken Rockwell. Both of them made a lot of suggestions on how I could set up my D780 to work better for me. I’ve done many of them, but not all. I guess I could have left the camera the way it came from Nikon, but the overwhelming majority of these things made it a better camera for me:

D780 Review

D780 Pro Secrets

@OXiDant

To capture a image:

• highest level of exposure, brightest point.
• lowest level of exposure, darkest point.
• can internal DR, stops of the sensor deal with it? No? Choose which is more important.
• lowest required shutterspeed?
• DoF required?
  -if one or both causes underexposure => correct with ISO value.
  Ready ? Desired object still in the frame? Aim focus click.

A lot of what you write here I do without specifically thinking about it. Certainly a good list.

To be honest, I usually shoot first, then think. I’ve missed too many shots by not taking one photo immediately, and trying to everything “perfect”, by which time the image I wanted is already lost. …and sometimes I spend forever, getting things just the way I want, as you describe. I try to have the camera properly configured before I even raise it to my eye.

I don’t think @Joanna said it specifically, but something I try to do most of the time is “imagine” my image before pressing the shutter release - that would include both what you wrote, along with composition, and what I want included (or not) in the image. Thanks to DxO and also to my camera, if there is any doubt, I don’t mind raising the ISO speed so I can use a faster shutter speed.

Final thought - I thought I had learned to put my camera in (M) mode, and leave it there. Lately I prefer using (A)perture priority mode, along with auto-iso, (but also checking that the shutter speed isn’t getting too slow).

@OXiDant

Aiming and focussing is hard enough. Tracking focus can work if you have time otherwize just a centre box mode and burst and hope for the best

If the camera has it, why not use the built-in tracking focus? Just hold in the back-button focus while the bird is moving.

@OXiDant

Birds on the ground? Silencemode. Electronic shutter.

Thanks for that pointer - I found it on Ken’s videos last night, and will program the camera that way next time. I never even thought about this.

One more setting to be aware of. Thank you!

[OXiDant (Peter)]

Most birds are noticing the biep of the focus ready (halfpres) so when you full press the bird is just on the move and thus un sharp, out of frame, wrong composition. I have 300mm aka 600mm efl and 10m is about great 20m is doable 30m starts to be despread for small birds.
The shutter sound is also a trigger to flee.
Digital noises travel further then you realize.
We have a Magpie around here who’s mimic a smart doorbel sound.
And smartphone ringtone.

[mikemyers]

@OXiDant

Most birds are noticing the biep of the focus ready (halfpres)…

Thanks; I put everything else aside, and also searched Google, where I found:

The D780 has an optional front-curtain electronic shutter mode to eliminate vibration at MENU > CUSTOM SETTING MENU (pencil icon) > d Shooting/display > d5 Electronic front-curtain shutter . Be sure to set the Quiet or Quiet Continuous modes on the top left dial for this to work.

Huge difference in (lack of) sound; my camera is now set for 1/2000th and f/8.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

It is intended to be a promotional holiday poster

What it says to me is “come to our beach, surrounded by ugly rocks and overlooked by skyscrapers”.

There is no way into the image. The first thing the eye sees is that mass of broken rocks in the foreground.

Here’s one I made back in 2003, on a visit to Santa Cruz…

[mikemyers]

Water, beach, and amusement park! Looks much more inviting than what I created. I also love all the colors.

Since you are obviously up quite a ways, shooting down on the scene, how did you manage that? An island away from the mainland? If I remember correctly, this was from one of you very early Nikons, with a small sensor. At first glance, I love all the apparent detail, everyplace I look. I’m guessing you took this very late in the afternoon?

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

It was taken from the wharf, which you can drive out on and find several good eateries.

Yes, it was taken just before sunset.

[mikemyers]

When I started out with PhotoLab, just as with any editor I’ve learned, the interface seemed horribly confusing. Eventually I learned that most of this is because of my “Workspace”. Several people here sent me links to a workspace to try out, and with a little adjusting (each time creating a new Workspace so I could return easily to the previous one).

I’ve noticed that my left panel is mostly used for my Histogram. Almost everything else, including apps I bought, but rarely use, is in my right panel.

Would there be any issue or problem, if I move some things from the right panel to the left? I’m specifically thinking of DxO Viewpoint, and DxO Filmpack, and I’d also like to move Watermark and Clearview to my left panel.

Before I investigate how to do this, is there any good reason to NOT mess with things the way DxO set them up? For me, it would just simplify my interface. I thought the tools I use the most ought to be up near the top, but maybe there is a good reason for why they are in the default locations.

Also, am I the only one here using PhotoMechanic to get my images off my memory card and into the desired location for storage and editing? I find it a huge time saver, as I can quickly remove all my “junk” images.

[mwsilvers (Mark - New Jersey, USA)]

@mikemyers

Would there be any issue or problem, if I move some things from the right panel to the left? I’m specifically thinking of DxO Viewpoint, and DxO Filmpack, and I’d also like to move Watermark and Clearview to my left panel.

You can move things to wherever you are most comfortable having them. Your preferences will likely be very different from mine.

Mark

[mikemyers]

@mwsilvers

Your preferences will likely be very different from mine.

This is a list of my workspaces. Several were sent to me by various users here, andI have that recorded somewhere in my notes, and old discussions here. Can I ask how you selected your preferences? What criteria did you use for what goes on the right, and what goes on the left, and what order to have the choices listed in?

[mwsilvers (Mark - New Jersey, USA)]

It was an ongoing effort with a lot of refinements that took several years to get to its current minimalist state around 3 years ago. I no longer use any custom palettes. In fact I currently only use seven of the standard palettes. I prefer to use the six smart workspace buttons on the top of the right panel for all my editing.

Smart Workspace

On the left panel I have the Histogram on top with the Move/Zoom just below it followed by the collapsed Preset Editor and the expanded Advanced History below that.

Left Panel

On the right panel I have Metadata on top followed by Keywords and the IPTC fields on the bottom.

Right Panel

Altogether I have easy access to everything without the interface becoming too cluttered. I find the smart workspace buttons convenient to use for all my editing.

[mikemyers]

I like the simplicity; I think I need to create a new workspace, as a copy of what I have now, and then one by one, simplify things as you have done - or at least try to.

I assume one workspace will be adequate for all my cameras.

Since you have empty space beneath your right panel, I assume that’s all there is - nothing is hiding below what I see on the screen.

My right panel is currently much longer:

[mwsilvers (Mark - New Jersey, USA)]

Your very long right panel contains eight palettes including Light, Color, Detail, Geometry, Local Adjustments, WaterMark, DXO Viewpoint, and DXO Filmpack. All the features of those eight palettes are available in the six smart workspace buttons on top of the right panel. Using those buttons allows you to display the individual palettes one at a time with less clutter.

The images below indicate what palette each of the smart workspace buttons represents. FilmPack and Viewpoint features are included in a couple of the buttons. Most of the FilmPack tools are in the fx button. and some of the Viewpoint tools are in the Geometry button but all of them are included in logical locations in those six buttons.

LIGHT

COLOR

DETAIL

GEOMETRY

WATERMARK and EFFECTS

LOCAL ADJUSTEMENTS

[mikemyers]

@mwsilvers

Your very long right panel contains eight palettes including Light, Color, Detail, Geometry, Local Adjustments, WaterMark, DXO Viewpoint, and DXO Filmpack. All the features of those eight palettes are available in the six smart workspace buttons on top of the right panel. Using those buttons allows you to display the individual palettes one at a time with less clutter.

The images below indicate what palette each of the smart workspace buttons represents. FilmPack and Viewpoint features are included in a couple of the buttons. Most of the FilmPack tools are in the fx button. and some of the Viewpoint tools are in the Geometry button but all of them are included in logical locations in those six buttons.

What you’re telling me (which was not at all obvious to me until just now) is that all those eight palettes can be removed, and I can find all the individual tools within one of the six smart workspace buttons on top of the right panel.

So, instead of opening palettes and leaving them open, I can close them after use, and then use one of the remaining five workspace buttons, closing each one after use.

Benefit - less “clutter”.
But I need to learn how to find each tool when needed.

Like when I was working on my motorcycles, after using each tool I put it back in the appropriate tool drawer in my tools cabinet. Everything stayed neat and clean, and I replaced tools after using them, then got out the next tool.

I think this will be a good change in how I edit. I never thought of it this way before…

[mwsilvers (Mark - New Jersey, USA)]

@mikemyers

What you’re telling me (which was not at all obvious to me until just now) is that all those eight palettes can be removed, and I can find all the individual tools within one of the six smart workspace buttons on top of the right panel.

So, instead of opening palettes and leaving them open, I can close them after use, and then use one of the remaining five workspace buttons, closing each one after use.

Only one smart workspace button can be active a a time. Selecting a different button closes the previously selected one. You can also deselect all the buttons which is what I do when I want to see the Metadata and Keyword palettes in the right hand panel. Spend some time playing with these buttons and then you can decide whether you prefer using them instead of your current workspace.

Mark

[platypus (Canon & Mac (Intel and M1))]

Tools can also be collapsed:

Ctrl-click on the header of a tool panel or palette and select to collapse all. This reduces all tools to their headers, except for the tool, the header of which you used to collapse all tools.

[mikemyers]

As a temporary first step, I saved my current workspace with a new name, removed those things I “never” use, collapsed others, and ended up with a list that almost fits on one page.

I’m not sure I want to minimize things that I almost always use - like Detail, where I turn that on almost out of habit, “just in case”, and “tone curve” about which I’ve gotten the impression, right or wrong, from @Joanna, that this is one of my most important tools to get the most out of my images.

I’m going to leave some of those things turned on, as otherwise I’ll need to go hunting for them for almost every image I edit. But thank you a lot - what I see on my screen now is much simpler than what I had before, and everything I consider “essential” is easy to find.

One last question - it seems to me that any time I use Clear View Plus I am sure to be jumped on for doing so. Is it correct that the ONLY time to use that tool, is if/when I want to cut through haze? Seems to me that most times when I need to deal with fog or haze, that adds to my photo.

Not that it’s any big deal, but my birding photos need to wait until after Miami Beach’s “spring break” is over. Because of all the issues, traffic here is a nightmare, and a simple trip home now takes twice as long. If anyone cares, search for “Miami Beach Spring Break” to read about the insanity. Many streets are closed. Parking garages are closed, and available parking spots cost $100. Sidewalk seating for restaurants is closed, and there is a huge police presence anywhere I go. The goal is to make this area as miserable as possible, so the drunken goof-balls go someplace else next time. Before anyone asks, no, I don’t feel like documenting this madness. What I’m doing with some spare time is going out on my balcony, and practicing panning with, and holding, my longest tele lens, trying to turn my body into a tripod. One of my two new books on the D780 has arrived, and the other should be here this coming week.

As for bird watching, using a Nikon, this seems to be an excellent source of good information:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChUi5Gm8w-S_d6dS31cFCnQ

[mikemyers]

I went out on my balcony this afternoon, just practicing how to “follow” any birds that came my way, while the camera was making like a machine gun. Elbows were dug into my body, and I pivoted my body from the waist. After a while, I thought I was doing reasonably well, trying my hardest to be smooth.

About then a pelican came by, in a long, sweeping turn to the left (West) as my gun, er, camera, was blasting away at it. I did this long after I figured any more photos would be worthless.

Three images came out “acceptable”, and I could bring out the colors and detail a little more with PhotoLab. The sky appeared blue to my eyes, so I fixed that too.

I doubt this is all that good of a photo, but it’s the first photo that I’ve taken with my Nikon 300 P lens that I like.

780_2597 | 2024-03-10.nef (24.8 MB)
780_2597 | 2024-03-10.nef.dop (18.3 KB)

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

So, once again, you used all that expensive gear to give you an image of less than 1Mpx!!!

And you only used a focal length of 175mm, even though you had a 300mm lens

The end result is you got an image of a load of sky with a hint of a Pelican in the far distance…

And now you are hoping that PhotoLab will help you make a silk purse out of yet another sow’s ear.

I had to use a 6x magnification in Topaz Photo AI in order to get a 30Mpx image but, that then revealed chromatic and possibly optical aberrations from your lens…

… and a somewhat plasticky appearance to the feathers.

Next time, check your focal length and, if the bird doesn’t fill at least half the viewfinder, don’t bother pressing the shutter.

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

Next time, check your focal length and, if the bird doesn’t fill at least half the viewfinder, don’t bother pressing the shutter.

Depends on what was most important to me. My goal, which I’ve been practicing at, was to hold the camera steady enough that the image would be sharp. When I look at the bird’s eye, I am satisfied. Remember “Rome wasn’t made in a day.” Eventually, I hope to get an image that you are satisfied with, but for me it’s one step at a time. Also, my biggest problem in India was underexposing the bottom of the birds, so there was no detail, and no color. Despite your comments, I was, and am, quite pleased with this image - but obviously I’ve got a long ways to go.

As for not pressing the shutter button, most people on my mailing list thought the image was great. It might be a worthless image for framing, but in an email, it looked just fine.

I hope my next image is an improvement over this one, but getting “good” (not even sure if I’ll ever be able to do that) requires a lot more of everything.

One more thing - the image created by Topaz doesn’t look “real” to me. It’s crisp, and sharp, and clear, but almost too much so. If that’s the kind of end result I want (not sure) I’ve got a lot more work to do - but again, to my eyes, it seems “over-done”. Do you agree, or is that the kind of end result to aim for?

[swmurray]

Practicing technique is good, but what technique are you trying to practice? What feedback are you requesting? @Joanna has already suggested “filling the frame” to get better photos. This photo isn’t close.

Are you testing shutter speed, various hand holding techniques to get sharper photos, etc?
Intentional practice, not random shots, will get you better results.

Here’s a couple of older videos that might give you some ideas for “pre-visualizing” a photo and/or using medium length telephotos such as your 300mm.
10 Tips For Bird Photography with a Short to Medium Telephoto Lens (youtube.com)

Learning From The Masters Different Bird Photography Styles (youtube.com)