Off-Topic - advice, experiences and examples, for images that will be processed in PhotoLab

DxO PhotoLab
2956

Yes, I now understand it works with digital cameras.
It seems to be working fine with my D780, now that I’ve configured the switch on the left side of the camera.

A week or so ago, I was told the D780 does not work with an SB-800.
Apparently those people were wrong…

I was told by a tech support person that the SB-800 in “TTL” mode was the suggested setting for most of the time, and the “TTL BL” position was intended for back-lit situations when I need a fill light, perhaps to light up the faces of people standing in front of a bright background. I’ll find out for myself soon enough what works best.

2957

Yes, with one small exception: AutoISO (if used).
With iTTL predecessors it was a bit different, but for film F6 and digital cameras for fixed ISO it is the same.

2958

" The SB-800 was announced 22 July 2003 . It was Nikon’s best flash until the complex SB-900 arrived in 2008."

If it is considered “modern”, then ditto for my D2 and D3 cameras. To me, it (and those cameras) are rather ancient. :slight_smile:

2959

Unlike the increasing complexity of cameras, there really isn’t much more you can do to a flash. After all, what does it do? It flashes. TTL simply uses the light reflected into the lens to modulate the flash intensity. The camera is basically just used as a light meter

2960

(speaking about SB-800 and later Nikon flash)
Other than just flashing,

  • it exchanges information with the camera, e.g. focal length, ISO.
  • it has a zoom.
  • it uses preflashes in iTTL and some other modes (some 30msec before the main flash, as far as I remember).
  • it uses it’s own light sensors.
  • it has circuitry to stop feeding the bulb, when it decides enough light was emitted.
  • it has AF-assist.
  • in FP mode the flash output is kept (nearly) constant.
  • it has an IR sensor to “hear” the master flash in CLS modes.
  • some have WiFi.

The interplay between camera light meter and flash light meter is quite complex, but I already forgot all those details. I think you can still some information on the flash protocol, reversed-engineered by someone long ago.
You can also use multiple flashes. simulatenously in various combinations. Newer flashes, like SB-5000, support Unified Flash Control, so you don’t have to use the buttons on the flash and you can setup the flash using only camera controls.

2961

Two quick thoughts, before I stop thinking about this for tonight - having had a glass of wine with dinner makes that easier.

a) I would rather live in @Joanna’s world, then the world of @Wlodek

b) The D750 was so easy - if I needed a fill flash, I pressed the button to open the flash. The camera acted like a mind reader.

Also, from another quick search: " The D850 replaces 2014’s old D810, adding the hot-rod AF system from the D5 and adding more speed, more resolution, Bluetooth and WiFi, but removes the D810’s built-in flash ." @Joanna, do you ever use a flash mounted on your D850? I’m guessing no. I think you have much better ways to deal with those situations. For the hospital I volunteer at, a working flash is a “must have” for their photos - 99% of which are “photojournalism”, photos shown on the web pages, and the Aravind eNews.

I didn’t expect all this discussion. I thought there was a very simple way to use flash when I needed to take that kind of photos. Fortunately, my Fuji does all this without blinking an eye. Flash is fully controlled by the camera, and it always results in perfect photos (which may not be as artistic as desired, but they always capture a “perfect” image.

2962

I wonder if I will ever do something here to satisfy you, but your lovely comments make me try even harder. I guess I’m not discovering anything “new”, just catching up with what I suspect is now common knowledge.

My test shots for tonight were thoroughly boring, and good for nothing but the trashcan. In trying to find a way to improve, I found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gFggxleFbA

Step by step, the images improved tremendously, and so did my attempts to follow his suggestions. Such a tiny change in technique turned “garbage” into “like, wow!”

Be careful - falling is bad news!

…I suspect buying additional flashes would be a good idea, but that can wait.

2963

I was so wrapped up in DETAILS that I mis-understood what you wrote. The key word you used was USING, and having thunk about this for a few hours, I realized you are right. …like in a car, there could be a gas engine, a diesel engine, or an electric motor, or whatever - it doesn’t matter. When you push on the accelerator pedal, the car goes faster. The end result is the same, regardless of how the car makes it happen.

I bought my new D780 because the hospital I volunteer at wants to use and learn 4K video. In retrospect, I could have waited until Nikon’s prices came down, and bought a D850.

Used D850

If the hospital wants to buy my D780, this can happen in half a year.

2964

Well, you’re ancient too :slightly_smiling_face:. What to do with that?
But serious, one can make the same wonderful pictures with ‘ancient’ stuff as with modern. If you’ve a problem with a flash or camera the solution isn’t just buying a new one. One can learn video also on a camera that doesn’t have 4k.

George

2965

to put it back in context

grafik

Seriously, I never thought you’d feel like you’re on the run.

back to where it started

You finally discovered that your SB-800 is (also) modern technology.
And yes, it works

  • in manual mode
  • with guide numbers
  • in the old ‘Auto’ mode, when film cams were not communicating with the flash
  • with the then modern TTL technique (e.g. with Nikon F4)
  • supporting front / rear curtain synchronization
  • working as master / slave as well providing Nikon’s SU-4 mode
  • with modern digital Nikons / also in multiflash set up …

just missing built in wireless (radio) transmission and modern high shutter speed sync.

Of course you don’t have to remember all this stuff. Just use it with your cam and practice.
( These days I occasionally use the SB-800 to copy slides. )

But for travelling light you might not want to take a flash with you, that weighs more than a small inobtrusive cam (e.g. like my ‘old’ Panasonic LX-100).

And as it has been said, use what you have, practice (combine it with reading, videos … whatever suits you) and have fun. You don’t have to please everyone.

2966

Hmm… about your first point, I don’t have an answer. We are born, and learn, and get old, and forget, and then we die. My brother had MCI, which has progressed to Dementia. Like aging, nothing can be done.

Me? Many things are more difficult than they used to be, even holding the camera steady, let alone learning new technology. I’m too stubborn to give up. Like video - my hospital wants to capture eye surgery in 4K, and the difference between 4K and HD is about the same as the difference between HD and SD. So, both the hospital and I bought 4K cameras, and they probably need to buy an appropriate video card, along with a 4K monitor. When I can afford it, I just need to buy a 4K monitor too. Since they want to use DaVinci Resolve for an editor, I’m learning that too - maybe I’ve finally learned the basics.

For the photos I am asked to take in India, I need a flash, and I’m now convinced the SB-800 is adequate. @Wolfgang listed a laundry-list of things I might want to learn, but I’m hoping I can learn to use TTL properly. At lest that’s a start. Every day I’m getting better at this.

@Wolfgang is reinforcing what I read from Ken Rockwell here:
https://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/sb400.htm
…but I’m not in any hurry to buy anything. I’ve got a lot more to learn first from my old SB-800.

2967

I don’t know how to put it into words, but I love the way you play around with light, showing things that usually look much more boring, but you’ve brought the lighting effects “to life”.

I was thinking about this earlier today, and something started to develop outside my window - the sky was creating patterns that I rarely see. I grabbed my D780, and took a series of images as the lighting changed, but after the second or third image, the “magic” that I felt was going away. I’ll post the best one here - to be honest, I only know what the light was doing for me, as a photographer. I have no idea how or why the lighting appears so interesting. There’s lots more interesting “stuff” in the original image, but the sky is what caught my attention, and what I wanted to capture. If I bring out more detail in the buildings, the water, the ship, or anything else, that is at the expense of people seeing the sky.

I don’t have “zig-zag” lines like what I enjoyed in your photo, but I love the lines in the sky in this photo.

780_1992 2024-02-09_DxO
780_1992 2024-02-09_DxO1920×987 75.4 KB

780_1992 | 2024-02-09.nef (25.6 MB)
780_1992 | 2024-02-09.nef.dop (14.1 KB)

If anyone wants to experiment with it, feel free.
Difficult for me to say “why”, but I enjoy using my D780 more than my Df.

2968

@mikemyers
You got it!
An absolutely spectacular image I think and also this yellowish light that we often get in the winter here when the sunlight manages to break through the dark clouds in a backlight situation.

You know the last 10 years since Sony A580 and Nikon D7000 forever changed the DR levels with the then new sensors that in one stroke left Canon two stops after in DR people have focused on lifting the shadows a lot.

I think that often have been a loss. I have always loved the silhuettes and that is why I absolutely love this picture. For me it definitely is a masterpiece worthy of print to put on a walk. You have to do that Mike! It is just lovely and so so spectacular!

Where is that skyline?

It is very generous of you to give us access to those files.

2969

Gee, thanks!

I watched this image “develop” for ten minutes or so before my eyes, grabbed the camera and 300 lens, and watched this scene develop for another 15 minutes or so, by which time the “magic” was gone. I downloaded all the images into PL6, and one of the first images I captured showed the most detail in the “clouds” (if that is the right name). The city is Miami

I learned long ago to always post the original image and the .dop file here. Usually I got advice on how to improve. On rare occasions I got a compliment - like yours. :slight_smile:

I learned more from responses to this single thread, than from all the discussions and responses in this forum. I also met some fantastic people, along with those who pushed me beyond what I was capable of at the time. For the past week, since I returned from India, the only thing I have been concentrating on is learning how to use my flash - but I really want to get back to discussing general photography.

In India, I broke my own “rules”. @Joanna and other brilliant people here wanted me to shoot in (M)anual mode, which I started to do most of the time. But then I tried to capture Indian fishing boats as they were returning to shore, crashing through some high waves. I couldn’t keep up with things, so I let the camera figure out the exposure, while I concentrated on the focus and timing. Worked great. I’ll post one of those images later today or tomorrow.

One last thing about this image, but the creditgoes to Nikon, not to me. I viewed the image at 100% size, and examined the rooftops, with the antennas and other gear. With lesser camera gear, I was never able to get that kind of detail in the past.

2970

I think I mentioned this several times. The M-mode is meant when you want 1) to fix your exposure settings or 2) to overrule the light meter. Maybe some more situations.
In your example above it’s absurd to use the M-mode for each individual image. Only when you want to fix the exposure. In that case you set the value and keep it there so you’ve equal exposed images. My preferable way when shooting more images in an equal setting.

George

2971

Something I have learned in all the responses up above, is that I have a choice:

Either >>>I<<< can make all the decisions about the photograph I am taking,

OR

I can let the camera make those choices.

Based on that, I have tried to use Manual mode whenever possible, and to avoid:

  • (A)perture mode
  • (S)hutter mode,
  • (P)rogram mode (worse yet), and
  • AUTO (worst of all!!)

Of course I use the metering systems on the camera, but I feel it is up to ME to decide what choice of the above settings, along with ISO and possibly auto-ISO.

In the past I got yelled at for using Program mode.
I got frowned at for using Aperture or Shutter priority.

I do have some excellent light meters, but I have been satisfied with using one of the three exposure settings (rarely spot metering, and usually center-weighted), and using the exposure setting tools on the camera - then adjusting when I think it’s necessary.

My camera is usually in either Aperture or Shutter Priority, or in Auto-ISO in case I need to take a photo before I have time to think about any of this.

But, back to the discussion, rightly or wrongly, I prefer to shoot in Manual mode. I think it’s “cheating”, but my captured image is automatically displayed, and if I really screwed up, I can fix things, and shoot again.

Nothing new here, back in my film days, I tried to always keep my camera on a reasonable setting for wherever I happened to be, on the subway, or the street, or in a field, or a boat. The camera was supposed to be ready for action immediately. Of. course, for me, this is from long before “automation” took. over.

Understood.
@George, what is your preferable way to simply walk around with your camera, before you even get ready to capture an image? This is before you decide to take an image? I would like to know what all of you do about this. Maybe I’m using sixty-year old suggestions, that are no longer valid in the digital world?

2972

A-mode
And watch the histogram. And don’t listen to that nonsense of it being based on the jpg.

George

2973

Automatic Mode? :open_mouth:

What exactly is cheating and why? Regarding using different things set to automatic, usually you can also set ranges for the values for the automatic mode to stay within. For example limiting ISO. And glad you’re posting here again :slight_smile:

2974

I put this into a Google Search:
“is a camera histogram useful when shooting in raw?”

This was the answer:
“if you are shooting JPEGs, the histogram is useful, though it lacks resolution in the shadows, and of course it has little to do with photographic exposure; if you are shooting RAW, it is worse - the histogram misleads when it comes to exposure of the highlights and shadows.”

1 Like
2975

I’m sorry @George but it is not nonsense. You only have to change picture mode on a camera to see that the rear screen image and histogram on it are both based on the jpeg. Try setting it to B&W and it will be obvious because the RAW is always in colour regardless of what you see on the screen.