How to create photos like "the masters", and is PhotoLab a useful tool?

[mikemyers]

Maybe my last image I will post here from my trip to Colorado. I wanted to get a photo of the beautiful mountains off in the distance, with the snow covered peaks, but nothing even approached the beauty that Ansel Adams found so often. I mentioned this to Susie and her husband John as we were driving somewhere, and I got off the main road, and we found something close to what I described I wanted to capture. The only lens I had was my 18-24, and of the perhaps 40 different scenes I tried, most were dead in the water before the shutter even clicked. As the last image took, I found a view that I liked. A lot of what I wanted was included, but as the saying goes, “you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear”. I probably spent an hour or so, in two sessions last night adjusting and re-adjusting and re-re-re-re adjusting until I reached a stopping point.

I liked the shapes, and the colors, and the clear (very clear) detail on the mountain, which gets lost on my computer screen unless I zoom in. The sky was acceptable, but I would have preferred more clouds. It lacks a “focus point” to be the one thing that stands out most in the photo, but the original goal was “the mountains”. I never did find a scene like this with the taller mountains all white with snow on the top - the photos I took of those just didn’t look so pleasing.

I do like this photo as a relaxing and enjoyable view of what I remember. I think it would make a nice print to hang on my wall, that I wouldn’t get tired of, and it would be great for a postcard. On the other hand, it is very “static” and “boring”. I do have other photos I like, but my “goal” was to show the mountains. I will look around for the other photos I took, where my eye went right to the snow-topped mountains…

Any thoughts?
MM2_0295 | 2022-04-15.nef (28.4 MB)
MM2_0295 | 2022-04-15.nef.dop (13.4 KB)

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

Indeed. I only use aperture priority when I’m trying to shoot stuff that is not important.

I guess I have different goals than you. I want to be able to pick up my camera to capture something that will be gone in seconds, and to have the camera get a decent exposure even if/when I have no time to think.

• Rear focus button is one more thing to remember, but it is built into my brain as something to do before pressing the shutter release. Pressing it in and holding it in is questionable, as it’s likely to create problems when it wants to focus on the wrong thing…
• Aperture priority means I’m likely to get an acceptable exposure, and I can always over-ride it if/when necessary, but I need to check every so often (like if I move from indoors to outdoors, for example) that it is still set to a reasonable value.
• Auto-ISO will be selected from now on. With PL5, I now realize this is a safe choice for me.
• I have considered sometimes leaving my camera in “burst mode”, so if I hold the shutter release in, I get it automatically - the worst thing that happens is I delete extra photos later. Not sure about this yet, but for animals (birds) I expect to do it from now on.

For me, the main choice isn’t whether the photo is important, but how much time do I have to configure the camera.

(I’ve also been finding out that the D750 makes my photography much “easier” than my Leica M cameras. With the Leica, for me, everything takes longer, and I “trust” the D750 more than I “trust” the M10. Not that one is better than the other, but shooting with the 750 is certainly easier and faster, for me.)

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

The key to this one is enhancing the contrast without resorting to ClearView Plus.

See what I did using the Tone Curve, Smart Lighting and a bit of Fine Contrast. Plus, I added a Control Lin over the sky to deepen the blue a little without accentuating the clouds too much.

MM2_0295 | 2022-04-15.nef.dop (8,8 Ko)

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BTW, I cannot read your DOP for some reason

[Prem (Win11, Sony a99, PL, FP, VP.)]

I don’t know whether the D750 allows you to program any other buttons. If so, why not programme. Another button to toggle between centre-weighted and spot reading. Once you have set that then you can press your focus button. That is what I do with my AEL button except I leave my AEL button in spot and toggle to centre weighted when needed. Your case toggle to spot when needed.

[Lost_Manc]

@Joanna

BTW, I cannot read your DOP for some reason

Nor me yours or indeed Mikes? Weird.

Was going to very quickly edit your version with a quick crop and possibly a grad filter on bottom (slightly lead you to the light so to speak!) as should be doing something else really!

For me. The foreground trees add nothing and are a distraction. Feel a 16:9 would suit the scene but without some cloning the tips of the trees remain unless you lose some of the mountain range.

Just an opinion anyway as to me the picture is clearly about the mounrtains but there’s too much fore and middle adding nothing. Again imo.

[mikemyers]

@Prem

why not programme. Another button to toggle between centre-weighted and spot reading.

Gosh, I have two buttons on the D750 that I don’t use, and both are programmable. Doing as you suggested ought to be easy, but I’m not sure I can “toggle” between two settings. If I use one button to set center-weighted, and the other to set spot, it should be simple.

@Joanna

See what I did using the Tone Curve, Smart Lighting and a bit of Fine Contrast. Plus, I added a Control Lin over the sky to deepen the blue a little without accentuating the clouds too much.

Strange, I downloaded your .dop file and replaced my file with yours. If you made a VC, I don’t seem to be able to select it, and I don’t see any modifications to the tone curve?? I also don’t see your control line. I’m feeling lost again.

Gee, I closed Filmpack and PL5, restarted PL5, and my additional contrast settings were missing. I then restarted Filmpack and got the + sign to add them to PL5. Does Filmpack need to be running, in order to have access to those settings.

I went through my images of the mountains, and found another one that I liked, but felt the one I selected was “better”. I just edited my second choice image, and will post it here. I want the “dead branch” at the lower right to add something to balance the photo. Maybe you will prefer this image? I did bring out details that I did not see with my eyes, but the camera saw them. Perhaps I went too far though…
MM2_0291 | 2022-04-15.nef.dop (14.6 KB)
MM2_0291 | 2022-04-15.nef (28.5 MB)

[Lost_Manc]

@mikemyers

Strange, I downloaded your .dop file and replaced my file with yours. If you made a VC, I don’t seem to be able to select it, and I don’t see any modifications to the tone curve?? I also don’t see your control line.

I have a feeling something is broken with the .dop for your image regardless of who ‘made’ it.

I can’t open either yours or @Joanna versions.

No ideas why tbh.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

I’ll create a brand new DOP later this evening and put that up. That will let us know if it was Mike’s DOP or a general fault

[Wolfgang ([ Win10, PL+VP+FP, Nik6 (+3) ])]

@mikemyers

@Wolfgang

So often in the past you were ‘not contented’, that I saved the effort to add my dop-file …
After deleting my interim version, the pic is now → VC2, @Joanna’s version added as → VC3.
[ quote corrected to post #262 ]

…
I thought this weekend would be good for doing that, but I’m stuck, and don’t want to break anything. How do I get to the revised .dop files, to learn what you did, and why? There must be a .dop file inside of the files you sent me? Maybe??
[ continued from post #272 ]

Everything is in the dop-file …

checked with nef- and dop-file in a new folder

[Prem (Win11, Sony a99, PL, FP, VP.)]

Hopefully you can set the button to toggle. Otherwise it will be very hard to hold in 2 buttons when needed.

[mikemyers]

I will call Nikon tomorrow and ask. I doubt this can be done, but hopefully their tech support people will know for sure, and if so, how to configure it.

My guess is I need to program the two buttons, one for action spot metering, and the other for center weighted metering.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

No need to contact Nikon, just read the manual.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

Here’s that brand new DOP I created for this image…

MM2_0295 | 2022-04-15.nef.dop (16,3 Ko)

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

I then restarted Filmpack and got the + sign to add them to PL5. Does Filmpack need to be running, in order to have access to those settings.

No, starting FilmPack only starts the standalone version for those who are not using PhotoLab.

As long as you have activated FilmPack in PhotoLab it will work fine. You obviously have because you can see the + on the Contrast palette.

[Wolfgang ([ Win10, PL+VP+FP, Nik6 (+3) ])]

@MJB

What do you mean you “dimmed foreground and background?” Did you use control points for this? I’ve only been using PL5 for about 2 months and am pretty weak on Local Adjustments - I only really know how to use the gradient tool and auto mask. I feel like I’m missing out on some of the more powerful features - are there any tutorials or anything that you would recommend?

Being out over the weekend I’m trying to ‘catch up’ now …
Activate the Local Adjustments to see the list of corrections – in this case starting with Control points.

The next 2 screenshots show a Control line with settings for the background.

normal view → note the position of the picker

mask view → note the Chrominance & Luminance adjustments

Different to other tools, Control points and Control lines allow to choose how much Chrominance (colour range) and Luminance (lightness range) to include in the selection (mask) → Mask selectivity.

• Control points pick up the chrominance & luminance values from underneath the CP’s position
• Control lines pick them up from wherever you position the picker
• and both can be corrected w/ CPs and CLs …

The next screenshot shows a reversed Control point to (better) control the light fall off.

mask view → w/ Chrominance & Luminance set to “0” – the CP acts as a ‘pure’ radial gradient

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I suggest to make a Virtual Copy of the version you want to check, activate the Local Adjustments globally, deactivate all of them in the list and re-activate them one by one to see the effect / to play with the settings.

have fun, Wolfgang

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about help & tutorials …

• PL 5 – User Guide
• Control line - TuTo DxO
• DxO Webinar: Editing Skies Using Control Points & Control Lines
  ( from DxO Webinars by @PhotoJoseph | PhotoJoseph.com )
• DxO Webinar: Sculpting the light using U point with Dan Hughes - YouTube
  ( about the former version/s w/o Chroma & Luma settings – easy to understand the basics)

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

No need to contact Nikon, just read the manual.

Thanks, Joanna - actually, this is the way I’ve been doing it for ages - it is the only way I know how to do it. Using a function-button sounded like an even easier way to switch back and forth between the two metering modes, but the standard way is adequate.

For me, it means lowering the camera, finding the button on top, and selecting what I want. I guess that’s just a habit I’ve developed. Knowing where this button is, is just about as useful as using a programmed function button.

If I remember correctly, I set the function button to an “artificial horizon” years ago, then forgot about it. This video explains how I learned most of my settings that I configured on my D750, including the function buttons:
Useful settings for D750

Thanks for the reminder.

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

Here’s that brand new DOP I created for this image…

I closed PhotoLab.
With Finder, I went to the folder for this image, and deleted my .dop file.
I downloaded your new .dop file to my downloads folder.
I moved it into the image folder.
For reasons I don’t understand, it got renamed to "MM2_0295 | 2022-04-15.nef-2.dop

So, I deleted the file from the folder (moved to trash), then emptied my trash.
As expected, it downloaded with the correct name, no “-2”.

I copied the file, and pasted it into the image folder, and it did not get renamed with the “-2”.

As a test, I deleted the .nef file from my image folder, emptied my trash, then dragged the file from my downloads folder to my image folder. Again, it was moved properly, without being renamed.

I am lost as to why this happened, as it seems like having the old file in the trash somehow might have caused the replacement file to be renamed with a “-2” the first time I tried this today. I don’t know why this happened, but from now on, I’ll be careful to verify that the file name doesn’t get changed when I move your file into my image folder.

I re-opened PL5, went to this image, and only saw what looks like my original edited image, completely with my watermark. When I click on the comparison window, it says “no virtual copy” and it shows the two versions I had saved.

So, I closed PL5 and deleted my two images from the PL5 Exports file. All I have left are my original image and your new .dop file.

Restart PL5, and I see my edited image with my watermark, which can’t be from your .dop file as the watermark should be gone.

So, I close PL5, and delete the .dop file, and empty the trash, which I’m sure I don’t need to do. I then re-open PL5, and as far as I know, there is no more .dop file for this image in the folder, so I should see an un-edited version of my image.

Nope, it shows my edited version. At the top of the PL5 page it shows:

It has a (M) at the end, meaning this should be a Master image, meaning there might be a virtual image somewhere?

OK, I moved the .dop file to the trash, closed PL5, and re-opened PL5. Of course, it still shows my original edited image with the (M) and my watermark.

How can I “reset” this image in PL5, so all it shows is the original image, with no editing? Until I can do that, I’m just spinning my wheels. Is there a button I can select to force PL5 to go back and show the original?

As a test, I copied the image to a different folder, and renamed it with an “x” at the end of the file name, then moved this renamed file back into the original image folder. PL5 should see it as a brand new image it doesn’t know about. That worked. Presumably, I can rename Joanna’s .dop file using the same “x”, and PL5 would open my new image using Joanna’s settings, but right now I’m more interested in fixing what’s broken in PL5 - why does my original image show up with my old corrections, when there is no .dop file ??

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

You will need to delete the database files for PL5, otherwise, everything gets mixed up.

[mikemyers]

Oops, what database files am I supposed to delete? Maybe I should just write this image for as “lost”, and delete it. I have my new copy with the “x” added at the end. I think that is better than getting involved in the database.

If you agree, does PL5 have a tool for me to delete the original file from within PL5, so its database will know the file has been removed?

This sounds like a big problem with PL5. I have no idea as to how it got confused, but apparently that might even be why the “.dop” file developed the problem people have found?

If I open the original file in PL5, as I just did, and turn off “watermarking”, my watermark goes away. Is there a setting within PL5 to “reset” the image to its original settings as imported, with no changes from PL5?

…I did it the hard way, turning off every correction I made. I then made a virtual copy, which looks identical to my test photo from the original file, with the “x” added to the file name. So, if I close PL5 and copy your .dop file into the folder, maybe my VC, or the original, will recognize your changes?

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

Oops, what database files am I supposed to delete?

Assuming you don’t use either projects or history in PL5, these three…

@mikemyers

If you agree, does PL5 have a tool for me to delete the original file from within PL5, so its database will know the file has been removed?

If you are not happy deleting the database, in theory if you copy the RAW and DOP files to somewhere else, go into PL and delete the original files from there, then close PL, replace the files and restart PL, all should/might be well.

@mikemyers

So, if I close PL5 and copy your .dop file into the folder, maybe my VC, or the original, will recognize your changes?

I wish I lived in Theory, everything seems to work there