How to check if a lens is supported by DxO PhotoLab, and if so, how can I get DxO to recognize it?

To be honest, for the purpose I had in mind, I would have been completely satisfied with what you just did in Lightroom. I do know how to correct the sickly yellow-green trees in PhotoLab, but I have no idea how to do it in Lightroom.

You’re all getting me confused as to the most appropriate things(s) for me to do. What you just did is/was the simplest answer. Sometimes I’m lazy though, and just do things the easiest way, providing I like the result. Thanks for the “nudge”. :slight_smile:

…there’s a whole world out there!

You’re right about that!!! I think photography is supposed to be enjoyable, fun, and that the more I do, the more I’m going to want to do. Days like today I just set up one of my cameras (today it was the M10), put on a lens I like (as in my new 28mm Voigtlander), and go for a walkabout with no plans in mind, just an open mind looking for things to try to capture in a good photograph. Towards the end of today’s walkabout, I came upon this scene and had no time but to raise my camera, focus, and smoothly fire the shutter. As if on cue, a split second later the life guard took out his whistle, went down the stairs, and walked over to tell some people to move. As for me, everything just worked, with no time to “think”, only to “do”. Not a very exciting photo, but I was pleased that I captured exactly what I wanted, and then too, when I viewed it at 100% size, it’s just as sharp as I had hoped. I love this new lens!

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The outside is washed out for two reasons…

  1. you over-exposed it
  2. your M8.2 has a limited dynamic range (only 11.3 stops at lowest ISO)

Even if you had used your M10, with 13.2 stops DR, that only applies at at 100 ISO and you were shooting at 640 ISO, which reduces that range to around 12 stops.

Since DxO Mark doesn’t provide a DR graph for the M8.2, it is difficult to say what the DR is at 640 ISO, but logic infers that it is going to be less 11 stops.

But the key to photographing high dynamic range like in this shot, with any digital camera, always spot read for the brightest part and over-expose by between 1⅓ and 2 stops. Then PL will give you a much better chance of recovering shadow detail and, thus, a better overall rendering.

Well I just adjusted the green part of the Colour Wheel and got much better trees, without having to spend out on some fancy physical filter…

That would be something I would question. I still have my Nikon D810, even though my primary camera is now the D850. Why? Because I have it set up with an alternative lens, just in case something weird goes wrong with the D850, not for regular use.

I also still have my Ebony 5x4, my Mamiya RZ67 and my Mamiya 7II film cameras. Why? I suppose because I have half a chest freezer full of ilm that I am dreaming one day I will get around to using. But the truth is, I can get better images out of my D850 than either of the Mamiya MF cameras and I only keep them for nostalgic reasons. Mind you, maybe I should sell off the Mamiya 7II since I have seen them advertised at around $8-9000 (not bad when I only paid less than $2000 when I bought it.

Ever since I got the extra DR that the D810 and D850 give me, I would only ever think of it in extreme cases. Otherwise, I hate the effect it gives - sort of like a badly done HDR. And I use LED panel lights for studio work.

Only if you used a wide diffuser and had preset the balance of flash to daylight before carefully measuring the sky, compensating for it and then working out what intensity of flash you would have required. Even then you are likely to get shadows from the point source of the flash.

Or you could have used your Nikon D780, with 14.3 stops dynamic range and got even better results.

I think, one day, you are going to have to face up to the choice of better images (with the Nikon) or that nice fuzzy nostalgic feeling from the Leica, but lacking the ability to provide good quality images except in particular circumstances which suit it best.

Then, the other day, I was sat on a bench at the local marina and spotted this…

Impossible to take with the D850, so I used the tool best suited for the job - my iPhone 12.

Or this one from Helen, taken handheld at 1/25sec on her iPhone 12 and barely touched in PL apart from removing a purple flare form one of the lights…

It really is all about the best tool for the job and Leica is not always that tool, no matter what it “feels like” to use it.

So much to respond to, but I’ll start off by saying you’re 95% right.

First, to get any detail in the inside of the trolley, the outdoors was sure to be over-exposed. I knew that, and tried several exposures, and finally settled on my “compromise”. Most cameras would struggle, and my poor M8 didn’t stand a chance. The M8 was Leica’s first attempt at a digital M, and in most respects, it failed. The only reason I bought it anyway, was to take photos by infrared light, since the camera didn’t have a built-in filter to block IR and UV. (When the camera was being tested, at that time of year, this didn’t seem to be a problem, but later, when it got cold and people started wearing sweaters and heavy coats, the “blacks” turning “purple” made the problem obvious. The best Leica could do was hand out anti-IR/UV filters to anyone who bought an M8.

Of course, in today’s world, 2022, the M8 is hopelessly outdated - it’s not even a full-frame camera, as Leica hadn’t yet figured out how to do that with the camera’s unusual geometry. Eventually they figured it out, and introduced the M9, which really was full-frame, and had the required filter built-in. Now that it has dead pixels, I’ll get it fixed of course, but I think I’ll mostly stop using it. The real problem with my M8 is me, not the M8. It’s like my Zeiss Ikon Contarex “Cyclops” with interchangeable film backs, that I bought at a “Dutch Auction”, and I think I only used it once. I still have it though - it is an amazing piece of technology, never mind the the Nikon F did the same things effortlessly, less expensively, and so on. Oh, I still have one of my F2 cameras, which I also never use, along with some of my very old rangefinder cameras that are never likely to be used again…

You’re also right that the M8 had terrible “dynamic range” in today’s world. The M10 is better, the M11 (which I will never buy) is better yet, my old D750s were better, and my D780 is much better. More about that camera later.

Color in M8 cameras - yeah, Leica gave out free filters to anyone who bought an M8, and you are certainly correct that the yellowish green can be fixed in PhotoLab. I spent an hour learning to use the color wheel, and got back my beautiful greens, but I’ve accepted that the M8 is now more of a collector’s item than a useful camera. Once the dead pixels are mapped out, I guess I could use it, but I’ve lost my enthusiasm for doing so. That has all been transferred to my M10 and D780.

Nostalgia - in one word, that sums up why I still have all these old cameras.

I love the flash that is built into my Fuji X100F, that is so small , and it’s not obvious from the photos that a flash was used at all. I’ve been searching, but can’t find anything like it for my current cameras, and I gave up searching and forgot about flash.

Very true. I wonder if I will do so before I am no longer able to go around with my camera?

I don’t understand - why couldn’t your D850 have taken the photo of the mushrooms? Is it that you couldn’t hold the camera low enough? Lovely shot, but the ugly round metal thingie at the bottom detract from the upper part - I’d have raised the camera, so more of the out-of-focus boats were included, and that metal thingie excluded.

Also, I enjoy Helen’s photo, but would enjoy it more had the camera been aimed a bit to the left, cutting out the ugly light pole, and getting a little more of the steps. Nice scene, nicely composed.

One thought on the last thing you wrote:

While I know what you mean, I also accept that “the best tool for the job” is whatever camera I have with me. Eventually I’ll learn, and I’ll walk out of my home wearing my D780, knowing that it’s “the best I’ve got”.

More on that in a separate response.

You’ve go to be kidding :wink: Here’s the kind of shadow detail I was able to pull up…

Only because you didn’t get the exposure right :wink:

How about using this problem as an excuse to stop throwing good money after bad and finally retire it to a shelf in a showcase?

  1. I didn’t have the D850 with me
  2. I could never get the same depth of field on the mushrooms at that distance with the D850 with a macro lens.
  3. The iPhone lens is closer to the ground than I could ever get a lens on the D850
  4. The subject was the mushrooms, not the boats but I liked the bolt head because it “anchored” the image :laughing: Also it was so close to the mushrooms, cropping it would have placed the mushrooms too close to the bottom of the frame.

The light pole is important because it holds the light that creates the flare, which echoes the curves of the bridge roof. She will be taking it again, with a bit more space around the top left. This time, it was a case of not cropping the large stone seat. We didn’t have a lot of time as we were waiting for Helen’s brother to arrive at any moment. Next time, we will also see what it takes to reproduce this kind of iPhone “magic” with the D850.

Which aligns with our use of iPhones for the two images I posted. Until we try out the D850 on the night shot, we shall never know, but I doubt if either of us can hold it for a 1/25sec exposure.

What is even more amazing is this iPhone shot of our house, taken at midnight with a full moon and an exposure of ½ sec handheld…

A few weeks ago, I left home with my new D780 and my huge and heavy Nikon 24-120 zoom to take some photos of the cruise ships as they were sailing out of the Port of Miami. This was the first time to use the camera and lens.

Both the camera and lens are supported by DxO, and from what I’ve read, DxO had their hands full, as that lens has a ton of distortions, which change as I zoom. I spent the night before going through all the settings, and I thought I had them right. Unfortunately, the D780 has more settings than I will ever learn no matter how long I live - the best YouTube instruction video is 2 1/2 hours long for the basic video, and the full one is much longer, and not free.

(I’m now a little past the half-way point, and stopped watching as my head was spinning too much.)

Anyway, I took the Miami Beach Trolley to South Pointe Park, around 3pm, and spent the next few hours watching the ships emerge from the port. The camera worked perfectly. Ditto for the lens, but it is SOOO heavy. I thought I was doing great, but that evening I found the camera had only captured JPG images, not NEF. Quite frustrated, I found lots more menus that I hadn’t checked, and the camera is now configured to shoot properly in raw.

I was going to post one of the images here anyway, but didn’t. Maybe I should have - and maybe I’ll post one of them below, in this response. PhotoLab notified me that I needed to download files for the new gear, and while I haven’t tested to really be sure the lens distortions are fixed, I was pleased with the results.

@Joanna, you’re completely right. I know that, but it’s not enough. I enjoy shooting with my M10 more than with my D780, for reasons I would find difficult to put into words. Maybe it’s all due to my using rangefinder cameras when I first got involved in photography. It’s all in my mind - the proof of what is “better” should be the images, and the D780 excels at that. Nikon developed the new line of “mirrorless cameras”, and when they upgraded the D750 to the D780, they included many of those features such as tracking a person’s eye (but to use them, I need to shoot in “Live View”. I’m not sure how the D780 compares with the D850, but hopefully it’s close enough despite only a 24 meg sensor.

I thought I had set the camera to raw+jpg, but I screwed up. I won’t make that mistake again. Here are the original files, sadly lacking a raw file:
_MJM0045 | 2022-10-08.jpg.dop (30.4 KB)

Sadly, I think you are right. I’ll let Leica repair it, at no charge, and then mentally retire it from active service. When the pixels died, something “died” in my mind. It has always been a challenge. Maybe its status now matches that of your D810, superseded by newer and better gear.

@Joanna, the following doesn’t belong here, but I have no idea where it belongs.

The M8.2 was replaced by an M9, which I never wanted. The M8.2 is the only camera I own that can easily and reliably capture infrared photographs. Then the M9 was replaced by the M10, and two years later, I bought an “open box sale” M10 from B&H Photo. As you pointed out to me, the D750 was a better camera, and I ended up using both. Now two things have happened - the D750 was replaced by the D780, and the Leica M10 has been replaced/upgraded to the M11, a $9,000 camera.

I started out feeling anxious to “upgrade” my M10 to an M11, but a funny thing happened - there are so many things about the M11 that I didn’t like, I lost interest. I suspect the M10 may be the last Leica that I own, and I accept that the D780 is in so many might be my last Nikon.

Last night I came across this video:

The longer I watched this video, the more I recognized about why I lost interest in switching from a M10 to a M11. By the time I finished the video, almost 45 minutes later, I no longer wanted an M11.

I suspect you and I might be in a similar position - camera manufacturers have already reached their “zenith”, and what they call progress, to me, and maybe to you, is a step backward. I think I share your thoughts about mirrorless, and the future. I searched for information on a Nikon D880, and found this:

My only question, mostly to you, is will the Leica M10 make me a better photographer than if I were to switch over and start using the D780. DxO PhotoLab will work perfectly with the gear that you and I have, so we will benefit. You understand more than I do, so you may well improve on what Nikon/PL do, based on how much you know and understand - in the same way that I suffer from not forcing my Leica to do the things that the Nikon would already do without any input from me.

Speaking for myself, perhaps I should put away all my Leica gear for a while, and see how well my newest Nikon gear helps me shoot better.

I know you’re just using the well worn phrase used by so many, but it is a phrase I have a strong dislike for because it’s disingenuous. The sentiment is more accurately, “the best choice of camera for right now is the only camera I have access to right now.” But that doesn’t roll off the tongue as well.

The best tool for the job is a tool designed for the job. I could argue that the best tool for the job is the most competent tool I could have with me. I guess I am weary of the phrase with respect to phone cameras, for which I hear it used a lot. Usually to ‘justify’ putting up with shortcomings.

Speaking of which…

I agree that iPhone night shots are magical. On the phone. Just don’t expect anything like DxO quality if you put it on a moderately large screen. I only have an iPhone 11 Pro, but I am routinely disappointed by the quality of images it takes, because I like to appreciate my photos on a large screen. This includes shots in all types of light. They do not bear examination beyond maybe an iPad screen size.

Sorry for the rant… nothing personal to those quoted.

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Knowing the intent, how would you say it?

The answer might be “the best camera I can afford”, but I don’t like that.
If I plan ahead, I’ll perhaps have an appropriate camera (and lens).
Knowing me, it would likely be my M8.2 (before), or my M10, or better yet my D780. But it might be my Fuji X100F, and I’m hoping to start carrying around one of my film cameras. Then too, I never know if I’ll need a wide angle lens, or a telephoto. …Hmmm, what camera do you carry around with you, if anything?

The only honest answer, or way to put it, for me, is I’ll try to do the best I can with whatever I happen to have with me.

As to iPhone photos - they look great on an iPhone, where Apple shows them off to their best advantage. They lose most of their magic when they are moved off the phone - then they become “snapshots”.

For any of these, if my gear is Nikon or Canon, and probably most of the current favorites, it is likely to be supported by DxO. By deliberately choosing Voigtlander gear, I’m getting lenses that are just about as good as Leica, for a much lower cost, but that are not, and are unlikely to ever be supported by DxO. If DxO ever wanted to support the iPhone, the better phones have multiple cameras, and I never know which camera my phone is using. I wonder what DxO thinks about supporting phones?

That is the most eloquent way I have yet heard. I will be noting that down to use in future rants against the phrase I dislike.

I would use “snapshots” (in the pejorative sense) to refer to poor composition. The issue I have with iPhone shots is the well-discussed concept in “real camera” circles of “image quality” or “IQ”.

A cheap plastic lens on a 2 megapixel camera can take nice photographs, but will lack image quality for viewing on modern devices. An $8000 lens on a 50 megapixel camera can take “snapshots” with really excellent image quality. While the “magic” of iPhone’s “night mode” (and the same sort of thing on Android phones) is impressive use of computing power to overcome issues with light, it will simply never have an IQ to match that of a larger sensor.

I do wish Apple/Samsung/Google would partner with Pentax/Fuji/Canon/Nikon because the power of iPhone-style “computational photography” combined with the sensor and lens tech of the DSLR/mirrorless world should be able to yield some fairly incredible results.

I think it’s clear from what is there now. Up to iPhone X is supported, then nothing since. Considering they are released on a very regular cadence and it is highly likely staff members have one, I think perhaps they wish they hadn’t put any in in the first place.

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Huawei partnered with Leica for the camera on the their P30 (and P40?) Pro a few years ago so there is precedent

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But Leica and Zeiss are “partners” for giving their names to some lenses on the backside of the phone. Not for camera-tech, I think most major smartphone-manufacturers employ better engineers for the tiny sensors than Leica or Zeiss have to offer.


Mike,you still love wearing those photojournalistic shoes don’t you. That poor D780 burning a hole through all those dollars that you spent on it, so here is a challenge.

Go out with your D780 plus a wide-zoom and a tele-zoom. For three months. D-clutter the viewfinder of any unnecessary information and just use it to compose your picture and alter your position if necessary to eliminate any unwanted elements in the picture. As you journey through three months you should gradually learn all the idiosyncrasies of the camera and be able to adjust your menus accordingly. Don’t forget you are taking pictures for you and not for any publisher or anybody else for that matter. After your three months then try to do the same with your Leica plus a wide angle, a standard and a telephoto. I suspect you will find it much easier to compose your picture in the D780. If so, put your Leica and lenses in your display cabinet and when you spot a nice juicy Nikon lens for your D780. Trade in some of your Leica lenses for it. I suspect that last bit might cheer Joanna up. I will look forward to seeing you results.

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As I see things, I removed my journalistic shoes while I was in India, and haven’t put them back on. This afternoon I figured I would take a walk to my local Fresh Market, and keep an open mind for anything that caught my eye. I picked the D780 with my 24-120 zoom, meaning there weren’t any restrictions n what I could shoot. I stayed away from Biscayne Bay, so as to not bore @Joanna, and found a lot more construction workers than usual working on the new building being put up near me. I started shooting them zoomed out, to capture what they were doing.

Two quick thoughts - there are things that the Leica does better than the Nikon, and vice versa. The Leica is small, and quiet, and nobody pays any attention to it. The D780 might as well have a huge flashing neon light on it, as everyone seems to pay attention to it.

Ha! The YouTube video explaining the D780 controls is 2 1/2 hours long, and that’s the “short” version. The full version is much longer and I have to pay for it.

By comparison, my Leica M10 is a kid’s toy, so simple, so easy.

That is so, so, SO true! Having a zoom gives me much more flexibility to get what I want.

Sure, I’m hoping to capture one nice photo that I really enjoy each and every day. I’ll pick one of today’s images, and post it below.

By the way, you wrote:

I paid just under $2,000 for a slightly used D780 body from B&H. (…and I bought a 24-120 lens, used, for $450, and a 28-70, also used, for $100. I’m tempted to return the 24-120, but it will be great in India, where I hate changing lenses in the filthy air. That may sound expensive, but the Leica gear is closer to $10,000. I’m finished buying Leica stuff. My M10 is certainly good enough for me, and Voigtlander lenses are comparable quality, for a tiny fraction of the price. Since I sold my two Nikon D750 cameras, that’s where the money came from to buy the D780. I’m tired of spending big $$$. Maybe I should just go back to shooting film…

Time to see if I got a photo I like, and see what I can do with PL6.

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(I may or may not have understood what you want me to do, but I think this image is what you’re asking for.)

I don’t think I ever gave you a direct answer. You tell me that “Editing EXIF data is going to create additional work for you”.

Not only is it not giving me an extra work, in 30 seconds of EXIF editing, PhotoLab will open my images from my Leica M8.2 camera, and allow me to do what I need.

Once the M8.2 image is open in whichever version of PhotoLab I was using at the time, I was able to do everything I wanted.

I’m not saying this is true for other cameras, or not true. All I know is that if I try to open the M8.2 image on PhotoLab, I get an error message, but once I change the camera name from M8.2 to Leica M10, it. does what I need it to do. You may well be right that there are technical errors in the resulting file, but if that is true, I don’t notice them.

To solve this once and for all, I can upload one of my M8.2 image files to PhotoLab, and you can rename the file as I’ve been doing. Maybe you’ll find a “bug”, and maybe not. Rather than tell me I shouldn’t do it, maybe you can do it, and then see if there are any “issues” that I’m either not aware of, or don’t care about.

I perfectly fine with you using whatever gear you like with PL. I hope you get the results you want. How you get there is 100% up to you. It’s a great tool. :camera:

I know you are very “weight conscious” but just to say, for the ultimate in flexible, good quality shooting, we use the 28-300mm lens, which only weighs 3oz more. It is now officially discontinued but I’m sure you could pick one up secondhand. It is our goto lens for wandering around and the majority of my images tend to get taken on it.

One thing you can do to reduce how obvious it is that you are photographing is to flip the rear screen up and use it as a waist level finder.

That is just plain ridiculous. By the time you have reached the end I bet you will have forgotten what he said at the beginning. He also does a lot of toing and froing when describing stuff. If you want a clearer written description of the menus, then Photography Life has a reasonably clear one.

Anyway, just because there are loads of menu items doesn’t make the camera hard to use, just to set up for the first time.

We use our D850s in manual mode with back button focusing and only ever have to adjust shutter speed, aperture and ISO. We rely on the metering scale in the viewfinder for spot metering or occasionally use the exposure compensation dial to offset the exposure.

Here’s a neat tip from Helen for setting the exposure for outdoors shooting where the light is unlikely to change - set the metering to centre weighted average and point towards the north of the sky. This should be good enough for all sorts of shots unless they are against the light or deep shadow.

One more reason for choosing the 28-300mm :wink:

Yet another reason to get that 28-300mm lens. You’ve ended up cropping out around ⅔ of the full image taken at 105mm, thus losing resolution and clarity.

Examples of uncropped images taken with the 28-300mm lens at 300mm…

Selling that 28-300 lens I never regretted as it was the second worst lens I posessed. Only the 24-85mm F3.5-4.5G ED VR was worse. If a lens is only usable when stopped down at least 2 or 3 stops it might have been good enough in the 12 MP region when it came out 12 years ago, but by today’s standards… it’s thrown good money at bad things like someone lately said.