Black and White Photography

…and get a second condo for darkroom :innocent:

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Maybe it depends on the camera used. I have the problem with a Canon 40D

Where, and how, can I find these numbers?
Never even thought about this before.
Is it something in the EXIF data, or something like that?

Yes, it is.

Somewhere deep in the bowels of the Exif system you will find things like this…

"IFD0:Orientation:1"="Horizontal (normal)";
"IFD0:Orientation:2"="Mirror horizontal";
"IFD0:Orientation:3"="Rotate 180";
"IFD0:Orientation:4"="Mirror vertical";
"IFD0:Orientation:5"="Mirror horizontal and rotate 270 CW";
"IFD0:Orientation:6"="Rotate 90 CW";
"IFD0:Orientation:7"="Mirror horizontal and rotate 90 CW";
"IFD0:Orientation:8"="Rotate 270 CW";

Unless you are either very knowledgeable or foolhardy, don’t touch!!! :nerd_face:

This all came about when some in this thread picked up on trying to find out more about why PL doesn’t flip images. It turns out that, along with several other apps, including web browsers, PL doesn’t honour this flag and, at the moment, will only allow rotation in 90° increments.

If DPL starts moving more into DAM this needs to be sorted -see the remark from the developer of Photo Supreme.

agreed, but if you want to change the tag, you can do it in GraphicConverter (Mac only) in order to see how the image will look

Notes: The number behind “Kopie” corresponds to the tag value, GC does not write to raw files and resets the orientation tag in the exported file(s) so that they will not be re-oriented by further softwares (that do handle the tag properly)

Are you suggesting that we can install the program GraphicConverter, and use that to flip images?
Interesting that it is also shareware.
Does this program actually make the change, or does it just show what the image would look like if the change was made?

Any proper DAM software can change the orientation, that is not the issue. The problem is that DXO should also write the correct XMP orientation. Then all is solved - see above the comment from the developer of Photo Supreme, post 171.

You can press the spacebar to get a Quicklook preview of an image where you have changed the orientation or you can open it in Preview. Both respect the orientation tag. You don’t need to download anything else.

GraphicConverter is just another image editor that decodes a RAW file and then you have to save the edited file as TIFF, jpeg, etc. It doesn’t write anything to the RAW file.

MacOS Preview will take a TIFF or jpeg and flip/rotate it so that you can then use it in the new orientation.

You don’t need anything else.

This is starting to make sense - a lot more to it than I expected. So, just like without modifying the raw image, where one can change the orientation from horizontal to vertical, there will eventually be an option to flip the displayed image left/right or top/bottom ? PL4 knows how to rotate an image 90 degrees, and the resulting jpg is rotated. So eventually PL4 will have an option to “flip” an image?

(I took a mirror photo of myself with my camera several months ago, so it was reversed. I corrected that with Photoshop I think. I guess it isn’t urgent, but for me this would be a useful option in PL4.)

Hopefully this feature will be added to PhotoLab at some point but it is probably nor very likely that the ability to create mirror images will be implemented in PL4. .


There’s a distinction between actual image rotation and virtual rotation. The virtual tags don’t actually rotate the image, they just tell compliant software to show the image as rotated. The advantage of this, when it works properly, is that the image doesn’t have to be re-written (especially useful for jpg images where continued re-writes can degrade the image).

GraphicConverter is one of the most competent converters for converting image file formats, hence its name. I’ve used GC to this end for many years and still use it for batch conversions mostly. It has been reading odd formats e.g. Kodak PhotoCD and medical imaging files and convert them to many other formats. Reducing GC to an image editor would be like reducing PhotoLab to its keyword tool :wink:

As for flipping images: Many apps can do it, but not PhotoLab. No need to get GC if you can flip images in Preview. Note that Preview cannot rotate or flip an image without storing a copy (Big Sur on M1)

I noticed that. If the image is rewritten then the orientation tag becomes 1. If not, then it will get its last value.


Well, it can, as long as the original file is not RAW.

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When I moved from Michigan to a small condo in Miami Beach, I had to sell all my darkroom gear - much, much too big. Huge 4x5 enlarger, print drying drum, and a gazillion other things. If I were smarter, I’d have hung onto some of it.

Anyway, my brother also had a darkroom setup, and while he got rid of a lot of things, he still had his 35mm Nikor developing tanks, one for 4 rolls and one for two. He’s sending them to me, so in a week or so, I’ll be able to develop my own b&w film again. I’ll find out what chemicals are appropriate, and see how it works out.

My brother used to put on photo booths at art shows, and has lots and lots of b&w prints. I think he enjoys b&w more than I ever did.

Things are looking up.

Regarding flipping images, if “Preview” can do it, that’s probably the best way for me. Do I need to do it one image at a time, or can it flip an entire folder of images?

If you batch select your images in Finder and then right-click “Open with…” Preview, you will get your images listed in the sidebar. Then you can select all and flip them all at the same time.

Very handy - I’ll remember this when the time comes.
Is this how you do it? Very clean and simple better than using a more powerful tool.

A lot of people don’t realise just how many quite sophisticated tools you get already included in macOS. If you remember, I have also talked about using Finder as a DAM - it doesn’t do everything but it’s good enough for a lot of people.

I finally made it through this Webinar:

Joanna, it made me think of what you’ve been teaching, and PhotoJoseph went SO far into the details. I feel like I was in a classroom, and I need to repeat this probably two times before I will appreciate the reasoning behind many of the things he showed. For this video he is going back and forth into and out of Photoshop. Hopefully the same effects can be created in PL4.

After the second viewing, and maybe the third, I hope to understand it better. If nothing else, I now know more about colors and the Zone System.

One of these days/weeks/months/years I can give you a good laugh by editing an image while I’m recording everything I do or say by running Camtasia.

One thing is becoming clear - there is no single way to do something. It’s all a series of compromises that work together, and there are multiple ways apparently to get a specific effect. PhotoJoseph seems to be ignoring all the “background” information on lighting and editing, and instead is manipulating the pixels like a sculptor with modeling clay. I like that, as that’s close to how I think, but he’s doing graduate level sculpting, while I’m maybe now in the third grade.

PhotoJoseph may have re-done this webinar - he said he was likely to do so. Unless you’ve already seen it, I’m curious as to what you think about his methods.