Author Topic: Thank You  (Read 4019 times)

loub451

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Thank You
« on: November 14, 2014, 06:54:31 pm »
DxO Team,

I just wanted to thank you for the opportunity to participate in the Beta tests of FP and DxO.
Though I am not a "Power User", I do my best to participate.

Lou

Sophie

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Re: Thank You
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2014, 02:45:45 pm »
Hi Lou,
Thank you for having been part of this program, and for your interest in DxO!

Keith_Reeder

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Re: Thank You
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2014, 05:28:33 pm »
What does a user need to do to be included as a beta tester, Sophie?

I ask, because it strikes me that a want of robust beta testing before now is at the root of a lot of what we currently perceive to be shortcomings of Optics Pro...
Keith Reeder
Blyth, Northumberland, NE England

Win 8.1, AMD FX-4300 Quad Core 3.8GHz, Radeon R7260X, 16 gb RAM.

Alan9940

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Re: Thank You
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2014, 07:17:34 pm »
What does a user need to do to be included as a beta tester, Sophie?

I ask, because it strikes me that a want of robust beta testing before now is at the root of a lot of what we currently perceive to be shortcomings of Optics Pro...

Hello Keith,

I'd thread lightly here...there are a lot of fine folks and dedicated beta testers that regularly roam about these boards.

Best regards,
AlanH

Keith_Reeder

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Re: Thank You
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2014, 10:00:03 am »
I meant exactly what I said, Alan - it's a legitimate observation, and as a paying customer I'm entitled to make it. There have been things going on in Optics Pro, the presence of which in released software has immediately made me wonder how it made it into the release.

I fail to see why anyone would be offended by this observation. (Although I forget - this is the internet, where everyone apparently looks for opportunities to find offence when none is meant...) 

So for clarity: it's not a criticism of the beta testers, but a suggestion (which is supported by the evidence, is it not? We're still not satisfied with Optics Pro's Highlight Recovery, and I remain baffled by why that's the case - but it must be in no small part due to beta testers signing off on it) that not everybody "pushes" photographically as hard as might be necessary to identify problems which subsequently become obvious very quickly to others.

I've seen the same thing elsewhere, where pre-release testing has failed to identify significant issues which I've come across within minutes of using the released software - it happens, and if a given beta testing team isn't pushing hard enough at the edges, it's going to keep happening.

It's simple human nature. Beta testers look for what they're interested in, and tend to be satisfied as long as what they see works for their needs: I'm saying there's evidence (in the form of the released software) to suggest that there's a need to broaden the scope of the beta testing community.

You just have to look at Optics Pro's own home pages to see (what I consider to be) the problem: where are the sport photography examples? Where are the "crappy light" wildlife images? Why are none of DxO's "Image Masters" from these genres?

(It's probably safe to speculate that the beta testing community has a broadly similar make-up).

What these genres have in common is the complete lack of control over the light that they work in, and there's no doubt in my mind that the likely lack of this kind of photographic challenge among the beta testers is a problem.

 As long as Optics Pro is tested by people who can pick and choose their light, it's not going to be tested thoroughly.
Keith Reeder
Blyth, Northumberland, NE England

Win 8.1, AMD FX-4300 Quad Core 3.8GHz, Radeon R7260X, 16 gb RAM.

Alan9940

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Re: Thank You
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2014, 10:30:58 pm »
I meant exactly what I said, Alan - it's a legitimate observation, and as a paying customer I'm entitled to make it. There have been things going on in Optics Pro, the presence of which in released software has immediately made me wonder how it made it into the release.

I'm sure you did...and, you're entitled to your opinion, but that's all it is!

I fail to see why anyone would be offended by this observation. (Although I forget - this is the internet, where everyone apparently looks for opportunities to find offence when none is meant...)

Aren't you in essence implying that the beta testers aren't doing their job? So, yes, it's a little offensive...

So for clarity: it's not a criticism of the beta testers, but a suggestion (which is supported by the evidence, is it not? We're still not satisfied with Optics Pro's Highlight Recovery, and I remain baffled by why that's the case - but it must be in no small part due to beta testers signing off on it) that not everybody "pushes" photographically as hard as might be necessary to identify problems which subsequently become obvious very quickly to others.

You're correct...many of us, including many of the beta testers, have voiced STRONG opinions and observations to the DxO development staff regarding OP's highlight recovery failings, including the affect over the entire tonal scale of the Selective Tone sliders. For fact, I spent a lot of time specifically on the Selective Tone sliders, after the development team voiced a significant improvement, looking at each slider's affect on a gray scale ramp, and then documenting with specific eye dropper measured values and visual observations. I wrote up a very long post on the v10 beta forum regarding my findings. Result? No comment from anyone on the DxO staff! And, to be honest, I have numerous other examples along these lines.

Many of the beta testers have tried very hard to influence development of OP. Sometimes our suggestions are implemented and/or refined; other times not. I was in the IT industry for 38 years, mostly on the software development side of things, and I empathize with the challenges involved. I always figure that DxO knows better than I what deliverables they can realistically hit and which of the many suggestions/improvements would most benefit their user base.

I've seen the same thing elsewhere, where pre-release testing has failed to identify significant issues which I've come across within minutes of using the released software - it happens, and if a given beta testing team isn't pushing hard enough at the edges, it's going to keep happening.

Sounds like rose colored glasses to me! I'm sure you may have identified an issue or two very quickly, and I'm sure many, many others may have identified other issues, too. No one can predict and/or control the nearly infinite number of hardware/software configurations out there that OP will be installed on. The beta team DOES push hard, but many things (actually most things) are out of our control!

It's simple human nature. Beta testers look for what they're interested in, and tend to be satisfied as long as what they see works for their needs: I'm saying there's evidence (in the form of the released software) to suggest that there's a need to broaden the scope of the beta testing community.

I can tell you, for fact, that for me this just simply isn't true. Over my IT career, I spent some time testing software. I pretty much try every function, every menu item, etc, until I'm satisfied that what I didn't expect to change...didn't, and that new functionality works as I'm told it's supposed to work. Does this mean that if everything is working properly on my system, it will work without a hiccup on yours? Of course not! Again, that's the nature of this stuff.

You just have to look at Optics Pro's own home pages to see (what I consider to be) the problem: where are the sport photography examples? Where are the "crappy light" wildlife images? Why are none of DxO's "Image Masters" from these genres?

"Crappy light" wildlife images? Why would DxO publish anything to their website showing "crappy light" anything? I have no clue why the genres you want to see there are not there. Are you a sports photographer? Are you a "crappy light" wildlife photographer? If so, then, perhaps, you should submit your work to DxO for Image Master consideration.

(It's probably safe to speculate that the beta testing community has a broadly similar make-up).

I doubt it...

As long as Optics Pro is tested by people who can pick and choose their light, it's not going to be tested thoroughly.

OMG, this is a joke right? Really meant tongue-n-cheek? I've been making images for about 50 years in all manner of light--good and bad--and I'm here to tell ya...I NEVER WAS ABLE TO PICK AND CHOOSE MY LIGHT!!! I will certainly try to "weigh the deck" in my favor seeking out specific kinds of light--storm light, for example--but, I've got no control over what mother nature deals up for me. Do you?

As always, thank you for the stimulating and thought provoking conversation.

Best regards,
AlanH

Bencsi

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Re: Thank You
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2014, 11:51:12 pm »
Hi Alan,

 Thanks your extended reply to Keith message. Especially, because a native English person feel better the meaning behind the words. On behalf of the other beta tester, the look down arguments from Keith are - at least - not polite. Your almost 40 years experience allow to describe the efforts behind the developers and testers. I was only 5 years involved in the IT, but having same opinion as yours.

Best regards

Endre
Win7/64 PC, i7-3770, 3.9GHz, 24G RAM, Intel HD-4000 GPU, 27" calibrated LG monitor 1920*1080 px res. 82 DPI

Sophie

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Re: Thank You
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2015, 10:07:20 am »
What does a user need to do to be included as a beta tester, Sophie?

I ask, because it strikes me that a want of robust beta testing before now is at the root of a lot of what we currently perceive to be shortcomings of Optics Pro...

Hi Keith,
Thanks for your interest in this program. You have been added to it as a new participant, and will get more information on it in due time.

Best regards


 

photography