Author Topic: Knock, knock, knock… anyone in at DxO?  (Read 5348 times)

Nick_

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Knock, knock, knock… anyone in at DxO?
« on: September 30, 2017, 03:19:08 pm »
Hi DxO folks

Sophie has stopped contributing to the forum since more than a year and I can't remember anyone else taking her place as an interface between the company and its users. Did she leave? Did she switch off the light when going? Obviously this forum is unattended, abandoned.

Anyway DxO never seemed to be very interested in its users' suggestions and requests, not to mention their issues. You don't have a policy for responding and sorting such propositions.
You are taking a chance with you base's loyalty.
1. People have suggested plenty of extremely simple an easy to implement features, like the last one discussed about the EXIF and IPTC data. It's features you find in most competing softs, even the unsophisticated ones. Many of them would greatly ease and simplify the user's experience and save a lot of time. The current primitive and dysfunctional management of EXIF data may also be a showstopper for some potential customers.
2. There was also suggestions for much more complicated and difficult features that may sometimes be incompatible with the general architecture of DOP. I understand it's put aside.

I must say I feel worn out with this forum. Users talk among themselves about their issues and ideas. It's good but communicating with the company is missing. I was feeling very hot at the beginning. I now feel lukewarm. Many aspects of DOP need improvements and I don't see them coming.

What other users feel like?

Nick

Bencsi

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Re: Knock, knock, knock… anyone in at DxO?
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2017, 10:31:33 am »
Sorry to say Nick, it is generally true. This forum is not supported anymore. If we can help each other, that is fine. Unfortunately, it is confirmed by DxO staff several months ago.

I should recommend to write personal message to whom it concerned.

Endre
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John7

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Re: Knock, knock, knock… anyone in at DxO?
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2017, 12:29:50 pm »
Even the One forum gets no response,  I fear  you are right they have drawn up the drawbridge and are living in there own world that can lead to major problems as any producer that refuses to respond  to their customers ultimately finds. There are many simple changes over the years that would improve the programs that in the main have usually been ignored! What ever the weakness of Affinity the forums are at present providing feed back to the publishers and they do respond at times.

Nick_

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Re: Knock, knock, knock… anyone in at DxO?
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2017, 11:30:43 am »
Even the One forum gets no response,  I fear  you are right they have drawn up the drawbridge and are living in there own world that can lead to major problems as any producer that refuses to respond  to their customers ultimately finds.
I never had the feeling we were really listened to but at least we were heard. There was someone in.

There are many simple changes over the years that would improve the programs that in the main have usually been ignored! What ever the weakness of Affinity the forums are at present providing feed back to the publishers and they do respond at times.
Right. IMHO they are taking risks.
Small or big shortcomings may be acceptable for a new software such as not displaying the DNG files it generates itself or the idiotic management of the EXIF data. With maturity there are stuff that are not forgivable. This may be put off potential new users as well as old ones.

To me there are two great categories of features people are requesting:

1. User interface.
Displaying metadata and making them editable for example is extremely simple to implement. It's just plain text.
These features would greatly improve the user's experience and in many case improve the speed of work too.

2. Image treatment.
This is much more complicated. There are some features some of us would like but I don't even know if they are implementable within the framework. They would certainly need a long and difficult development process.

Nick

Bencsi

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Re: Knock, knock, knock… anyone in at DxO?
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2017, 01:44:22 pm »
Hi Nick,

 Let me place my policy here in respect of software usage.
If  I try a new app and it has some feature I need, start to test. It should take less than 1 hour. If the results of usage is promising, I'm happy with the new possibilities.

Every app have shortcomings, no one is perfectly matching to my taste. If I can do something more comfortable than with other app, I pay for and use it sometimes.
DoP is a RAW converter in my view. Does it correctly ?  Yes. A lot of feature is not belongs to the original role. Those are add-on features as for me.
Yes, you are right, the IPTC & EXIF details handling should improve DoP, but I can do comfortable with other apps. We suggest some feature to add, but it sounds me like demand from my dentist to learn the internal medicine for my comfort. If need such service, I go to another doctor. So simple. If I would be nervous always, because some service is not available - certainly I would have divorce my wife several years ago.

I hope, my words are not offending to you.

Endre
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 09:39:12 pm by Bencsi »
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Valdo

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Re: Knock, knock, knock… anyone in at DxO?
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2017, 03:36:09 pm »
Hi Bencsi,

you are defending DxO and offending their customers. Why?

I made already the decision and I switched to Capture One, beeng
very unsatisfied with DxO response, In my case with Fuji support.

The top of the hill was the the argument that Fuji use Faveon sensors....

Bencsi

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Re: Knock, knock, knock… anyone in at DxO?
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2017, 09:38:24 pm »
Hi Valdo,

OH, I just realized, one word ( not ) has forgotten from the last sentence. Revised, sorry and thank you. It is definitely not my aim to offend anyone. I just intend to show my thinking about software features. When you decided to change to Capture One, certainly you had several arguments about the most important parts. I lost my confidence too in several softwares in the past, it is natural.
To fight for particular features - is hopeless. I tried it twice, in both cases I lost. What shall I do ? To be angry every day or find a complementer solution ? I decided to search solution out of the actual 'wrong' software - without any bad feeling.

That is my policy, no one have to follow.

Endre

« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 09:41:33 pm by Bencsi »
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Nick_

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Re: Knock, knock, knock… anyone in at DxO?
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2017, 01:08:20 am »
I am afraid I have to agree with you Endre. I don't feel offended at all. Yet I need to make my point clearer.

1. Concerning the core features I am very happy with DOP in most respects. They are very efficient and very easy and fast to use. I feel very comfortable with the software.
I have been considering buying an HDR software for long but I never found one yielding results that satisfy me, especially with DOP doing an excellent job at retrieving highlights and shadows. I have old shots taken in difficult light conditions that I was never able to recover at the time with Adobe Camera Raw and Photoshop Elements. With DOP it's just a breeze. :)
I use a lot the ViewPoint geometry tools, especially the Perspective. It allows a significant enhancement to many shots.
There is probably some room for improvement to the core features but I think it would be marginal… unless we believe in miracles.  ;)
For example I was very disappointed with the Dust tool but, hey! this is not the core domain of competence of the application and I understand it doesn't do well. I don't use it. I do it with Affinity Photo.
Within DOP's non-destructive correction framework I don't see what other features could be added. I didn't make significant requests on these grounds.

2. Concerning the user interface I think many ancillary features are missing or could be greatly improved.
I think it would be in DxO's interest too. LR users could be more appealed to switch if they found stuff that they think are trivial. It would also improve current DOP user's loyalty to the company.
Unlike the core features that involve very sophisticated algorithms development, these are just trivial.
The complete neglect of this forum is also very damageable to the company's image among it's customers.

Nick

John7

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Re: Knock, knock, knock… anyone in at DxO?
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2017, 10:01:39 am »
In many ways I agree Nick, but some of the “trivial” things that DxO have refused to integrate can have a big effect. For example I crop most images to the A ratio, the near standard European paper format.  The only way is to either individually create a ratio for each image or as I do add it to my own default preset. This makes it a real pain if you want to use other presets, no matter how many times I have requested to DxO or through this forum they will not either add the A ratio or create the ability for a user created ratios that is present in most programs. I find it really frustrating that such a small,  but for most programs already existing ability,  is just ignored.

Being able to deal with areas is a more integrated thing but one that though I rarely need it, is one that can be very useful and its stupid that you need a second program to use only when you do need it. But for others, my wife being one, it’s a real off putting omission as she is always doing local corrections doesn’t uses OP much as a result. But this would be a more complex program change.   

I know there are many other such areas customers have requested over the years that have been as unsuccessful as well. So I do wonder what the point of the forum is, self-help yes (with my A ratio of more help than OP support who gave totally misleading advice!) but changes to the program or pointing out bugs, no we just are ignored which is not a good feeling.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 10:42:45 am by John7 »

Nick_

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Re: Knock, knock, knock… anyone in at DxO?
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2017, 09:07:40 pm »
I'll give a couple of personal examples.
I've been using Adobe's softs for years but eventually got frustrated with their product policy so I switched to DOP. They don't have a customer service.
I bought my first Mac in 1987 (a Mac 512) and in almost 30 years I had all sorts of Macs but I was always put off by Cupertino being yet another Vatican that knows what you need and what's good for you better than you do. Since it became only worse with the success and they stopped making real desktops, last year I manufactured my own hackintosh to my specification and I am very, very, very happy with it. Apple lost a client that supported them even during the dark ages of the 90's. I was very loyal. I am not any more.
Companies that don't listen to their clients because they think they have a genuine piece of the Holly Cross tend to become bureaucracies.
OTOH, Affinity's forum for example is actively attended by the company's people who discuss and contribute.

As a matter of fact I didn't post a feature suggestion here since long.

John7

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Re: Knock, knock, knock… anyone in at DxO?
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2017, 11:07:45 pm »
"As a matter of fact I didn't post a feature suggestion here since long"

I agree they don't take any notice and now I don't think they even bother to view the contents, pitty

Bencsi

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Re: Knock, knock, knock… anyone in at DxO?
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2017, 12:36:14 am »
 The fact is Guys, more than two years ago - at the time of v10 release - there was a market survey. about the most wanted features of DoP. The majority of the votes needed 3 new features. I do not know, how the development took seriously the results ( it was a closed circuit survey ), but once a year a new version is obligatory. Let us see, what will be announced before year end. Actually the stability is significantly improved, hopefully now some important add-on modification will make DoP better.

Endre
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Nick_

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Re: Knock, knock, knock… anyone in at DxO?
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2017, 02:18:26 pm »
The fact is Guys, more than two years ago - at the time of v10 release - there was a market survey. about the most wanted features of DoP. The majority of the votes needed 3 new features.
Do you remember which ones? Do you have the references?

Actually the stability is significantly improved, hopefully now some important add-on modification will make DoP better.
I don't have stability issues. I do have issues with the RAM use. That's one of the reason why I shifted to a hackintosh: I installed 32 GB, upgradable to 64 GB. With DOP I consistently hit 99% RAM use so I sometimes quit and relaunch. That's probably the cause of the stability issues. DOP is not the only soft that hogs the RAM and eventually chokes. Yet this is not my main concern.

I never understood why they developed the DxO One. It must have drained lots of resources whereas it's not really their main domain of competence and these resources could have been better used to improve their main product. AFAIK it's not a great success.

Nick

John7

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Re: Knock, knock, knock… anyone in at DxO?
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2017, 03:20:49 pm »
Indeed I wonder the point of  One. Many users have battery  problems with it. Indeed one posted a set up to overcome the battery problem, I just can't see the point it was more bulky than a camera! http://forum.dxo.com/index.php/topic,13138.0.html

fhoxh

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Re: Knock, knock, knock… anyone in at DxO?
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2017, 06:21:27 pm »
Let us see, what will be announced before year end.

It's over. It's already October. The writing has been on the wall. Look at release notes below. Nothing but support for new cameras, minor bug fixes and a couple of token minor features — for the last year. There has been no marketing or communications regarding upcoming major new releases.

Infrequent, minor updates over an extended period of time is oftentimes a clear signal that the software has destabilized or that the developer has lost interest and has put the software on "life support". The software is well over thirteen years old. It's likely implemented with archaic technologies and the original team members have likely long since departed.

http://download-center.dxo.com/Support/docs/DOP11/current_release_note/Release_Notes_DxO_OpticsPro_Win_EN.pdf
http://download-center.dxo.com/Support/docs/FilmPack5/current_release_note/Release_Notes_DxO_FilmPack_EN.pdf
http://download-center.dxo.com/Support/docs/ViewPoint3/current_release_note/Release_Notes_DxO_ViewPoint_EN.pdf
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 06:07:48 pm by afoxson »

 

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